His Divine Grace Çréla Bhakti Rakñaka Çrédhara Deva Goswämé Mahäräj
End of 10-3-81, start of 11-3-81
Devotee : He’s originally from Germany. He’s from Germany and his zone is in South America.
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara S wämé : South America. Where in South America?
Devotee : Columbia and Equador
Devotee : And Kesava Bharati Maharaj He’s American and he’s preaching in France, in Europe, oh in Italy.
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara S wämé : I am told that is under Bhagavan dasa, South Europe?
Devotee : Yes He’s GBC. Bhagavan das is GBC of South Europe, and Acarya. Snnyasi preaching there.
Devotee : …and Gopépuräëadana Däsa, I wanted to bring him to meet you. He is translating Çrémad-Bhägavatam.
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara S wämé : Oh, translating Çrémad-Bhägavatam. Took up the thread of Pradyumna, Pradyumna began, is it not? And he has left. Pradyumna, he wanted to begin the work of Bhägavatam translation but he has left it, and you are engaged less. Yes, translate Çrémad-Bhägavatam.
Hare Kåñëa. Gaura Hari bol! Gaura Hari bol! Nit äi Caitanya.
Who else have come there, newly, in Mäyäpur ?
Devotee : In two days I think some devotees are coming from America and South America.
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara S wämé : And Canada?
Devotee : And Canada also.
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara S wämé : That Subäl Viläsa, the manager of Tamal Kåñëa, he is in Canada. He gave a letter to me, "And I shall also go very soon."
Devotee : Chicago.
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara S wämé : He was in Chicago but his business was in Toronto and perhaps he is there. Or, in the letter, he may go back to America.
Hare Kåñëa Hare Kåñëa Kåñëa Kåñëa Hare Hare, Hare Räma Hare Räma. Gaura Hari bol!
Devotee : So, do you want to mention this idea that he would look at some of his work?
Devotee : So we've done a little of translating. We have almost enough for one volume, five chapters. So is it possible that you can look at what we've done and make some judgements whether it is good enough?
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara S wämé : I can't follow.
Devotee : He wants to say that they have translated five chapters of this eleventh canto. And if they could bring some of this to you and you could hear it and make some, give your comments, opinion.
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara S wämé : Opinion. If anywhere you have got any doubts you may refer to me and I can try to make it understood.
Devotee : Not just on technical things, the problem is whether…
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara S wämé : Some points, if you've got any doubt you make a list and then come to me and I shall try to explain that. Have you got a list?
Devotee : No. My papers are in Calcutta but I can bring on Friday.
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara S wämé : Yes, conveniently you can do.
Devotee : But just generally the doubt is whether we're not very spiritually qualified, technically we may be able…
Devotee : He's saying that there's one general doubt about the qualification of the translator.
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara S wämé : If I can hear, the general, how you have caught the plane from which the translation should be made, as I try to examine that from your writings, to find out what angle of vision you are looking at, then… Hare Kåñëa. The angle of vision, that is the main point.
Devotee : I know it is not very high. We're just trying to copy, take from the commentaries…
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara S wämé : You are selected of course, it is their responsibility and they must have imparted some inspiration in you. They have selected you for the service. So your Prabhupäda must have grace for you that you may do the [work in such a spirit?]
Gaura Hari bol! Gaura Hari bol!
It is not our merit that we can deal with adhokñaja realm. But His gracious inspiration, that only can help us to deal about Him. It is unknown and unknowable. That characteristic is always there. Still, by faith, by devotion, a devotee can perhaps live and move in that plane, the plane of grace. It is not a matter of right that they can stay. That is the primary acquaintance of that plane. But of course that has got a sort of right, the right in the affection and the grace also. Devotees, they find a sort of right. Not for himself but for the others, Guru, Vaiñëava. Mayi te teñu cäpy aham, in Bhagavad-gétä:
[samo 'haà sarva-bhüteñu, na me dveñyo 'sti na priyaù
ye bhajanti tu mäà bhaktyä , mayi te teñu cäpy aham]
["I am equally disposed to all souls, therefore no one is My enemy or My friend. Yet, for those who render devotional service unto Me with love, as they are bound by affection for Me, I am similarly bound by the tie of affection for them."]
[ Bhagavad-gétä , 9.29]
His relation to other things, He may be there, may not be. But that is not in the case of His devotees. In their case, mayi te teñu cäpy aham , "They're in Me, I am in them." That is the exception. [Svarüpsya?] He cannot do away with svarüpsya - that is His own. Without svarüpa-çakti His existence cannot be conceived. So taöasthä-çakti and apara-çakti, they may be eliminated if necessary but svarüpa-çakti is in His constant company. So mayi te teñu cäpy aham.
mayä tatam idaà sarvaà , jagad avyakta-mürtinä
mat-sthäni sarva-bhütäni , na cähaà teñv avasthitaù.
["In an unmanifest manner, I pervade this entire universe, and everything conceivable is situated within Me - and yet, I am not situated within that total entity."]
[ Bhagavad-gétä , 9. 4]
All these statements are about the taöasthä loka and this mundane world, not about svarüpa-çakti and the devotees.
sadhavo hrdayam mahyam , sadhunam hrdayam tv aham
mad-anyat te na jananti , naham tebhyo manag api
[The pure devotee is always within the core of My heart, and I am always in the heart of the pure devotee. My devotees do not know anything else but Me, and I do not know anyone else but them.] [ Çrémad-Bhägavatam, 9.4.68]
"They do not know anything but Me. And I am also in My turn do not know anything but them." That is the relationship with the devotee and the Lord. The Lord of love cannot frustrate any devotee. He says: "Uddhava, you are more favourable to Me than Myself." That is the position of the devotee to Him, near Him.
Hare Kåñëa. Ahaà bhakta-parärdhéno:
[ahaà bhakta-parärdhéno, hy asvatantra iva dvija
sädhubhir grasta-hådayo , bhaktair bhakta-jana-priyaù]
[The Lord tells Durväsä: "I am the slave of My devotees; I have no freedom apart from their will. Because they are completely pure and devoted to Me, My heart is controlled by them, and I reside always in their hearts. I am dependent not only on My devotees, but even on the servants of My devotees. Even the servants of My devotees are dear to Me."]
[Çrémad-Bhägavatam, 9.4.63]
He says to Durväsä: "What do you think? You are neglecting Ambaréña. But it is not negligible, by necessity. I am always with him. He is always with Me. And you Durväsä, you are a tyägé, yogé, brähmaëa , and houseless. And he maintains a kingdom, an empire. But still, he's more favourite. You will have to go to him for forgiveness. I can't do it. That case, if I take the case in My own hand for judgement it will be insulting to him. I honour My devotees should be given such honour as others should give to Me. Rather, more honour should be given to My devotees than I will automatically be honoured." Ha, ha, ha. "Automatically, if My Name is honoured, respected, then automatically respected the God. But if you give respect to Me and neglect My devotees I am not satisfied. Your respect is not so much intense. It is vague. It is deceptive character. But if you honour, if you love Me, love My dog. There they do not know anything but Myself." Katham tams tyaktum utsahe:
[ye därägära-puträpta-präëän vittam imaà param
hitvä mäà çaraëaà yätäù , kathaà täàs tyaktum utsahe]
["Since pure devotees give up their homes, wives, children, relatives, riches and even their lives simply to serve Me, without any desire for material improvement in this life or in the next, how can I give up such devotees at any time?"]
[ Çrémad-Bhägavatam, 9.4.65]
How can I leave that, abandon them? They do not know anything but Myself and I also in My turn do the same thing.
ye yathä mäà prapadyante , täàs tathaiva bhajämy aham
[mama vartmänuvartante, manuñyäù pärtha sarvaçaù]
["As a person takes refuge in Me, I accordingly respond to him. Being the ultimate goal of all philosophies and doctrines, I am the object to be attained by all. Certainly, O Pärtha, all men follow My various paths."] [Bhagavad-gétä, 4.11]
"In any way you approach Me I shall respond similarly. This is My general conduct. But a special case also. Sometimes I deceive people. Bhakti, they want bhakti, but I give them mukti. I don't give them bhakti." Muktim dadati karhicit sma na bhakti-yogam:
[räjan patir gurur alaà bhavatäà yadünäà
daivaà priyaù kula-patiù kva ca kiìkaro vaù
astv evam aìga bhagavän bhajatäà mukundo
muktià dadäti karhicit sma na bhakti-yogam
["Çukadeva Gosvämé continued: My dear King, the Supreme Person, Mukunda, is actually the maintainer of all the members of the Päëòava and Yadu dynasties. He is your spiritual master, worshippable Deity, friend, and the director of your activities. To say nothing of this, He sometimes serves your family as a messenger or servant. This means He worked just as ordinary servants do. Those engaged in getting the Lord's favour attain liberation from the Lord very easily, but He does not very easily give the opportunity to render direct service unto Him."] [ Çrémad-Bhägavatam , 5.6.18]
"Anyhow he wants bhakti from Me. To give bhakti means to give My own self. But when I find that he's not so fit, not so sincere, though anyhow he has come to beg devotion, to aspire after devotion, devotion means to sell Myself for that. But when I can't rely then I say, Oh, you take mukti and go away. At the same time there are other cases, sincere devotees, but do not know how or what to pray.
sei mukha ami vigya
krsna bhuli ami bhaje male visay shuk ami vigya sei mukha vishay kana …….?
In the case of Druva…
stanadi ladi tapa sisti druvam tam prapta dham deva muni gudyam
…………………………………………?
"I came to recover the kingdom but now I don't want anything now I have got You. I went to seek some glass but anyhow, fortunately I have got the diamond. Now I cannot throw out the diamond and again want the glass."
"No, no, Dhruva. You will get kingdom. You will get Me also."
"All right. I like it."
"Yes. If you like so, it may be today."
Hare Kåñëa. Hare Kåñëa. Kåñëa. Kåñëa. Gaura Hari bol! Gaura Hari bol!
Devotee : I have a question in this regard. It's said that the Lord wants that His devotee is glorified. He likes that. So I have a question - when we worship Kåñëa we worship Him very opulently. We put crowns on Kåñëa, we put jewellery, the best cloths, the best food, the best temple, all the best for Kåñëa. Now my question is whether if somebody is Vaiñëava äcärya representing Kåñëa in preaching His message, and he's in a good position, if he takes a lot of opulence for himself also, since he's the devotee of Kåñëa, if he represents himself also in a very opulent environment personally, whether this is a very good representation towards the public, to those who don't know Kåñëa?
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara S wämé : Has he finished? What does he say?
Devotee : So, he's saying that we…
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara S wämé : In the name of Kåñëa we collect so much money and resources for personal satisfaction?
Devotee : No. No. He's saying that we will give to Kåñëa, we will offer to Kåñëa crowns, mukuts, jewels, so many nice clothes. So also, Kåñëa's representative, the Guru, we will offer him so many nice things, the disciples they may offer. But how much should he accept, because at some point the public may be disturbed? So how does the Vaiñëava äcärya decide what is the limit of such opulent offerings from his followers?
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara S wämé : änukülyasya saìkalpaù:
[änukülyasya saìkalpaù, prätikülya-vivarjjanam
rakñiñyatéti viçväso , goptåtve varaëaà tathä.
ätma-nikñepa kärpaëye , ñaò-vidhä çaraëägatiù
evaà paryyäyataç cäsminn , ekaikädhyäya-saìgrahaù]
[These six chapters have been compiled, each consecutively dealing with the six limbs of surrender, which are as follows: 1 - To accept everything favourable for devotion to Kåñëa. 2 - To reject everything unfavourable for devotion to Kåñëa. 3 - To be confident that Kåñëa will grant His protection. 4 - To embrace Kåñëa's guardianship. 5 - To offer oneself unto Him. 6 - To consider oneself lowly and bereft."]
[Caitanya-caritämåta, Madhya-lélä, 22.100 - quoted from Vaiñëava Tantra]
What will help him to render the maximum service of Kåñëa, that should be accepted. By ä cärya , Vaiñëava, or anyone according to their own respective position. Whatever will be necessary. He must be sincere. And a Vaiñëava and äcärya - here, äcärya means superior Vaiñëava - generally we may take it. But everyone won't want anything. To want anything for himself for his sense pleasure, that is non-Vaiñëava life, Vaiñëava thought. He accepts everything for the service of Kåñëa. Even this body, this mind, that is also dedicated for the service of Kåñëa. And whatever I accept from others for the service of Kåñëa, and because I shall have to render service, so for winter I want some warm cloth. Because I must render my quota of service to Kåñëa I want food, I want water, only to maintain this body and do the service.
And service may be of different kinds - ordinary service and dignified service. The position of the äcärya, sometimes of the preacher, they may have, require some position, otherwise ordinary people won't care to hear them. So a platform is necessary. At the same time it should not be so much as to raise jealousy in the people that they will say, "Oh, this man is only a worshipper of resources and money and jewels." This such sort of misunderstanding should not be given to the, indulged in the people. So carefully we are to handle. And when it is necessary we must have a grand garment, and when necessary then naked I may approach. Çukadeva, the naked young man, he could address the whole religious intelligentsia of India at the time.
Devotees : Ha, ha, ha.
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara S wämé : A naked, sixteen year-old boy. So, according to the circumstances we have to adjust. Dignity may be necessary but too much of everything is bad. Hare Kåñëa. May bring reaction to the public, that, "We can't gather a morsel to keep our body and soul together. And this man is lavishly expending money like water, throwing money in the water." At the same time we are to teach the people that if we learn to give everything to the Lord, then our want will vanish. Give it to the Lord. Whatever energy you have got, try to give it towards the centre, whatever it may be.
Sétä Devé when in forest life, she offered Dasaratha, her father-in-law, in sludge, the kingdom of (Badukar?), sand. Sand, instead of rice she offered sand. Bhäva-grähé-janärdanaù [Lord Janärdana (Kåñëa) sees the mood of devotion.] Not the things outside but the sentiment of the heart, that goes to Kåñëa, not the external things. If you have you must offer, but if you don't have, with a small thing…
Duryodhana wanted to feed Kåñëa with very rich dishes. Kåñëa refused and went to the abode of Vidura. And Vidura by begging he cooked some kool? Kool means a part of rice which is generally eliminated from food - that is the negligent part of rice that is set aside. And that was cooked for himself and he offered to Krsna, Kåñëa took it refusing the rich dishes of Duryodhana.
And Raghunätha Däsa Goswämé refused his father's money, which he sent for his food purpose. And what the cows could not eat, he took that and washed it with mains water. And the inner substance that was left that was not rotten, with some salt he took it. Mahäprabhu went there and one day He took and remarked, "So sweet prasädam I have never taken." Then what is prasädam? The will of Kåñëa.
Another day He told to Särvabhauma Paëòita, "You see these are the wonderful prasädam, how wonderful the taste. We all know the general, physical taste of these things. But why such wonderful taste has come here? Gaura Hari bol!
Devotee : I am personally quite disturbed in my spiritual understanding because when I joined the movement I saw Çréla [A.C. Bhaktivedanta S wämé Mahäräj] Prabhupäda preaching just the same way you are preaching right now. And he has specifically ordered all his disciples to dedicate at least fifty per cent of all our energy into the book distribution so people can read about Kåñëa. And nowadays, after Çréla Prabhupäda has disappeared I am seeing that so much energy is dedicated towards the glorification of the new Gurus. And the message of Prabhupäda, the book distribution, is in some places stopped altogether. And people say, 'We cannot worship Prabhupäda in this way because there's no money.' But on the other side they're using money in such big amounts for things which Prabhupäda never did, like very fashionable motor cars, and so many other things.
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara S wämé : Yes, I follow.
Devotee : Mahäräj, ……………………?
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara S wämé : Gadädhara temple, Gaura-Gadädhara temple, of this Champahatta (?). Previously his predecessors they are the (simise?) of the temple, and they gave it to our Guru Mahäräj [Bhaktisiddhänta Saraswaté Öhäkura]. And he's a disciple of Prabhupäda [Bhaktisiddhänta Saraswaté Öhäkura], my Godbrother, he's in charge at present in the service of Chappahadi (?).
Devotees : Hare Kåñëa. Hare Kåñëa. Hare Kåñëa.
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara S wämé : From his young days, from his youth, he's serving our Guru Mahäräj. Though he's in white dress but still from the age of sixteen or so he's engaged in the service of Guru Mahäräj and at present he's in charge of Champampat (?) Maöh.
Devotees : Hare Kåñëa. Hare Kåñëa. Hare Kåñëa.
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara S wämé : This is some, thinking personal. My Guru Mahäräj wanted me to improve my dress, twice. First he told once, "Improve your dress." It is my nature to live plainly. Again he told me, "Improve your dress. Otherwise the people at large they may not give importance to your words, your preaching." But still, ha, ha, I was, ha, ha, my habit is like that, plain living. At the same time he also chastised many for their (vilasita?), of their luxury. But he wanted me to be otherwise. So we see differences of temperament in different devotees. But if the spirit of dedication is pure then it may not affect much. But still, we must accommodate ourselves, adjust ourselves with the environment so that the work began by our Guru Mahäräj may not be hampered. That should be the aim, that the work of the mission may not be hampered, that should be the object, everywhere. So if it is necessary, when it is necessary to show grandeur to the public, to attract, to bend down their head, it may be accepted. But when it will arouse only jealousy in the public heart it should be avoided. We must try to draw their attention in whatever way will help us. Generally yukta-vairägya, the middle path, that is good.
So your trouble, of course I follow. This sort of dignity must be maintained, but that does not matter, as you say, that no money in the case of propaganda but there is money to show in competition the dignity of the äcärya. But do the äcäryas follow the same policy, same principle, in the case of all the äcäryas, or some try to compete with each other?
Devotee : There's competition.
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara S wämé : Competition?
Devotee : Yes.
Devotee : Imitation. Imitation of our Prabhupäda, because…
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara S wämé : Prabhupäda was a man of simple style, simple life.
Devotee : But we offered him the best that we could. So now there's the same idea that they should imitate Çréla Prabhupäda.
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara S wämé : Imitation, sometimes if necessary they may show themselves in higher opulence than Prabhupäda. It does not matter. Just as your Prabhupäda, he came in such a position, in such a circle, that he could show more rich position than his Guru. But everything, to the inch, to the atom, it was meant to establish the glory of his Guru. If it's in that stage, then no harm. And whether it is necessary or not, whether for personal dignity or to raise the dignity of the whole mission, that is the point. And how it should be managed in what items, what percentage of money should be used, these are to be considered of course. And if the GBC is there and all the members of GBC are not äcäryas, and outside GBC there is also so many stalwarts, well-wishers of the mission. They must have some opinion…
Devotee : They're all disturbed, there's many, many devotees disturbed by the same thing.
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara S wämé : I told to him previously that collect some opinion of the big personages of the mission and then you make a programme, you will prepare, and put it to the GBC that, 'These are the general complaints against ä cäryas and against GBC. You please consider. You are our representatives so we put it to you. Guru Mahäräj has left confidence and trust in you, so you consider properly and do the needful. Otherwise so many of us will be under painful necessity to go on in our own way according to our spiritual conscience. We have got some conscience which took us to that great Guru, and we cannot disbelieve that conscience within us. That inner voice we cannot ignore. The inner voice, the conscience that took me to my Guru, I can't ignore the sincere urge of that conscience. I shall have to retire from you all. And we, so many, want to combine ourselves and that may go against you.' I told to you at that time…
Devotee : Yes.
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara S wämé : … and you made so many copies and distributed.
"What can I do? The conscience is within and we cannot disbelieve our conscience. We must be thankful to our conscience that took me to my illustrious Gurudeva. Some understanding I can demand at least. And there are so many of such stages. You may be superior elder brother but that does not matter. You should help us understand your position, otherwise we cannot follow you blindly. And not only one or two, there are so many and they're not all less qualified. They have got some status. So give some importance to our common voice."
In this way, mildly, with humility you approach them for some consideration. And it is not possible because, for this, that Pradyumna, that gentleman in the beginning he made a list of eighteen points and showed it to me. "These are general complaints against the present government, GBC, these are the", he showed. But none, many sympathetic internally, but externally none ventured to support him perhaps. And gradually so many important hands that I am acquainted with they went far away one by one. That I see, I feel, I am sorry for that. They are all sincere souls who came to render their service for ISKCON but this sort of management, the present form of management was not very palatable and they had to go far and far from this present working centre. And many discouraged still maintaining and some disconnected already. And they're good souls, I'm personally known to them, some of them at least.
Devotee : Some eighty to ninety per-cent of our Çréla Prabhupäda's disciples have now disconnected.
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara S wämé : Eighty or ninety disconnected?
Devotee : Yes. That's in Prabhupäda's lifetime, and after, combined.
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara S wämé : Who has disconnected in the lifetime of Prabhupäda, we are not to consider them. But after the departure of Prabhupäda, there also so many may be disconnected because they could not observe, accept the principles and observe the regulations. That is also not to be counted. But who wanted to be within the mission and wanted to serve their utmost for their whole life, if their heart is disturbed, that is to be recond and considered and reconsidered why they felt discouraged, they're still feeling discouragement? They should be helped. They may have something to say in their favour, "That our position, the public naturally thinks that these present äcäryas, their importance and their value is not so great as that of the founder." So, they will minimise, they will try to look at us with some lower mentality. So they may not think like that so we are to show the dignity of the position of the äcärya, but they are not of lower standard - to attract their disciples." Otherwise, newcomers, newcoming disciples, they will have a defeatist mentality, "That our grand Gurudeva was a supernatural figure, but these fellows they are not up to that standard." So, äcäryaà mäà vijänéyän:
[äcäryaà mäà vijänéyän, nävamanyeta karhicit
na martya-buddhyäsüyeta , sarva-deva-mayo guruù]
["One should know the äcärya as Myself and never disrespect him in any way. One should not envy him, thinking him an ordinary man, for he is the representative of all the demigods."] [ Çrémad-Bhägavatam, 11.17.27]
The äcärya should be seen not inferior, but the delegated power of Kåñëa, the Supreme Entity. To maintain that dignity, reluctantly we are to show this grandeur of the position. And as much as I can gather, I must accept that facility as it is given to me.
There is Bhagavän Däsa, he's in opulence. Men and money, perhaps he has got the maximum. And he will try to show that, "I get the major portion of favour and grace of my Gurudeva." In this way the competition is coming, but give and take. He has got the facility perhaps of the zone. Together it is collecting more money and more men. But at the same time he should be sympathetic to the other äcärya Godbrothers, that their position, that will be magnanimous tendency and practice. The other Godbrothers may not be shown, may not be viewed of less importance. This is give and take. The affection they show, it will be happy if we work together, then we must have sympathy for each other. In a family…who is he?
Devotee : This is Kavicandra Prabhu
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara S wämé : Kavicandra Prabhu, from where?
Devotee : He's coming from America, he's going to Japan.
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara S wämé : And the other two?
Devotee : Katvanga Dasa, from Germany.
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara S wämé : He came here previously?
Devotee : No.
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara S wämé : And this gentleman?
Devotee : Båhat çloka Däsa from New Våndävana
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara S wämé : You live in Våndävana?
Devotee : New, Nava Våndävana.
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara S wämé : Oh, Nava Våndävana.
Devotee : As a püjäri .
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara S wämé : Nava Våndävana. He's a püjäri , priest…
End of recording, 10/11-3-81
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