His Divine Grace Çréla Bhakti Rakñaka Çrédhara Deva Goswämé Mahäräj
End of side A, start of side B, 12/13.8.81
[First 1 minute 38 seconds missing from transcript]
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara S wämé : … when I think that I'm in a position, I can do this, I can do that, I am something, that is a concocted position, not a real one. Really, the Guru, "I am servants of all my disciples." That is the attitude of Guru, they're servants. "You say a flower is being offered to the feet of the Lord, just as the flower we take on the head. So many living souls have been offered by the process of dékñä to the Lord, and they're all my Guru, my respected things. I can't take them as holding a lower position." This is the real angle of vision of the ä cärya . "What I have offered to the Lord, to Kåñëa, they're things of my respect and worship."
But, äcäryaà mäà vijänéyän, "No, I am their master. I shall teach them." This is a sham ego, this is. What the Guru says, chastises his disciples, controls, all these are delirium, not normal. A property given by the Lord for the time being, "Be a master and control them, whip them, abuse them." This is a posing, this is temporary, put to a devotee to take the position of an äcärya.
But in his real position, in his intrinsic position he says that, "I am most insignificant, meanest of the mean." But when the Lord wishes to get some service of the äcärya then He inspires him for the time being with that sort of ego, "And you control them. You are big and they are low and you must look after them." With that sort of ego given to a particular devotee then he becomes äcärya. That is a foreign thing, äcäryaà mäà vijänéyän is a foreign thing. That is not innate. But that sort when that is got by inspiration so he does not commit anything wrong there, because it comes from the Lord direct. So hatväpi sa imäû lokän na hanti na nibadhyate:
[yasya nähaìkåto bhãvo, buddhir yasya na lipyate
hatväpi sa imäû lokän na hanti na nibadhyate ]
[ He who is free from egotism (arising from aversion to the Absolute), and whose intelligence is not implicated (in worldly activities) even if he kills every living being in the whole world, he does not kill at all, and neither does he suffer a murderer's consequences.] [Bhagavad-gétä, 18.17]
If he kills the whole universe he does not kill anything. So all this abusing, controlling, chastising, he's not the recipient. It is the Lord's special will. And this is the truth.
Gaura Hari. Gaura Hari. Gaura Hari. Gaura Hari. Nitäi Caitanya.
Devotee : [speaks Bengali]
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara S wämé : Some fifty years back perhaps when Prabhupäda [Bhaktisiddhänta Saraswaté Öhäkura] had a tour through Våndävana, coming back he stroked his forehead by the palm, "I could not see a real Vaiñëava in Våndävana Dhäma. It is my misfortune." In this way he pressed his palm on the forehead. That is the sign of disappointment, despair. Then when, [nineteen] thirty-three, he continued a Braja-maëòala parikramä, at that time in his weekly paper he wrote, "That no real Vaiñëava in Våndävana. And who is supposed to be the leader of all those sahajiyäs in Våndävana, he may be considered to be a kaniñöha- adhikäré." That Ramakrishna Däsa Bäbäjé, who was at that time considered by them to be siddha Bäbäjé Mahäräj. And Prabhupäda told that he's only a kaniñöha- adhikäré, a less efficient Vaiñëava.
He was a brähmaëa, he had austerity, a spotless character, well-read in the Vaiñëava çästra , but he was considered by Prabhupäda only the third class devotee, that Ramakrishna Däsa Bäbäjé. Who was considered at the time by the whole of Braja-maëòala to be siddha-mahätmä, siddha Bäbäjé Mahäräj.
Once I, coming from Bombay via Våndävana, stopped in Våndävana for some time, for a few days. That was in the summer, Nåsiàha-caturdasi day. I went to visit that Ramakrishna Däsa Bäbäjé, that the whole Braja-maëòala thinks him to be siddha Bäbäjé and our Guru Mahäräj considers him of the third order. I went to trace the difference, what is he? Two or three days continuously I went in the afternoon to his quarters. Before him, two or three disciples perhaps, reading Bhagavät, and he's giving advice, explanations, now and then. I am looking at him and also thinking of my Guru Mahäräj, Prabhupäda. I thought that he's a man.
In the meantime I heard one of his disciples told there was another Bäbäjé of reputation, Prankrishna Däsa Bäbäjé. Then one told that, "Prankrishna Däsa Bäbäjé was saying that I have completed my fifthtieth, some years in Våndävana." Then that is deriding his position and that, Ramakrishna Däsa Bäbäjé could not tolerate, perhaps. He remarked, "Oh, he came here when he was fifty-five. Before that he was a gåhastha. And now his age maybe such and such, and have lived here a long time. But I came here when I was fifteen years of age and I am staying here so long." I found as if he could not tolerate the fame of the other Bäbäjé.
Devotee : What was the other Bäbäjé's name?
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara S wämé : Prankrishna Däsa Bäbäjé. They've all gone now.
Then I sometimes put my attention on him and to think of my Guru Mahäräj. "What is he and who is he?" I came with conclusion that this gentleman is trying hard to attain a particular thing. With much great austerity and abstention, strictly following the scriptural rules, the practices as Rüpa and Sanätana inaugurated. He's trying hard to go on in that way. And when I looked at our Guru Mahäräj I came to the conclusion he is a resident of that land and come down here to give something to the world. That was my conclusion. And from here in an ascending method he's trying his best to go up. And he has come down to fulfil some order from above. So that was his own thing he has come to give to the world. And this gentleman is trying his utmost to achieve, finish, a previously chalked out path, trying to get the thing.
He did not recognise this thread ceremony to anyone and everyone which was inaugurated by Guru Mahäräj. Guru Mahäräj wanted to create Vaiñëava, daiva-varnäçrama, thereby to help both the parties. The society at large they should not think that a true Vaiñëava is below brähmaëa standard. And those that will come to be Vaiñëava they must think that they're crossing the stage of brähmaëaism and then going to be Vaiñëava. This gulf of the middle stage, that was supplied by Guru Mahäräj. A Vaiñëava is always above brähmaëa.
So, the sahajiyä, they have to think that they're above brähmaëa, such abhimäna, such impression they must have. A Vaiñëava is not below brähmaëa. And the society will also begin to think the Vaiñëava is always above brähmaëa. Viñëu-jïäna is always above brahma-jïäna. Brahma is the last position of this world and Viñëu's place is not below Brahma, sattva-guëa, but nirguëa, guëa-tirtha. So a Vaiñëava should always consider themselves above Brahmaloka and above brähmaëa. These things our Guru Mahäräj wanted to preach, both amongst the Vaiñëavas as well as the public.
brähmaëänäà sahasrebhyaù satra-yäjé viçiñyate
satra-yäji-sahasrebhyaù sarvva-vedänta-päragaù
sarvva-vedänta-vit-koö yä viñëubhakto viçiñyate
vaiñëavänäà sahasrebhyaù ekäntyeko viçiñyate
["Among many thousands of brähmaëas, a yajïikabrähmaëa is best. Among thousands of yajïikabrähmaëas, one who fully knows Vedänta is best. Among millions of knowers of Vedänta, one who is a devotee of Viñëu is best. And among thousands of devotees of Viñëu, one who is an unalloyed Vaiñëava is best."]
[Hari-Bhakti-Viläsa, 10.117] + [Bhakti-Sandarbha, 117]
That those sahajiyäbäbäjés they could not tolerate this idea, so they're hypocrites. They do not understand what is real Vaiñëava. That Ramakrishna Däsa Bäbäjé who was considered to be the siddha-mahätmä, siddha-bäbäjé in the whole of Braja-maëòala, he ridiculed this idea.
jenow deta hai sa koi?
He remarked about our Guru Mahäräj, "He was born from [raga putana?] He came from [raga putana?] brähmaëas family." He could not tolerate this idea that one who has come to enter into Vaiñëavism, whatever caste he may come out. "Before having Vaiñëava dékñä he must have that brähmaëa. " So he could not tolerate that anyone is conferring sacred thread and misusing the use of sacred thread, that was his complaint. So he could not understand the real purpose of what Vaiñëavism is.
But they were giving this kaupéna to anybody and everybody. Kaupéna , that is a higher emblem. That was given by Mahäprabhu to San ätana Goswämé and that is continued so far downward, kaupéna. Then one of us put a question to a bona fide follower of that Ramakrishna Däsa Bäbäjé, "Whether sacred thread is superior or kaupéna is superior? Kaupéna is compulsory to a Bäbäjé, so whether kaupéna ceremony is superior or sacred thread ceremony?"
Then, he could not but express that kaupéna is higher. "Then, when our Guru Mahäräj gives sacred thread to persons, you complain against, you raise complain. But you are giving that kaupéna which is higher, you consider, to anyone and everyone. What is this?" And they can't say anything. "We consider that kaupéna giving, kaupéna ceremony is higher, and sacred thread ceremony is lower. So first sacred thread ceremony, then after that the kaupéna ceremony will come. That is the sign of the fifth rank. The sacred thread are the fourth rank - catuh-[tarsana?]…………… sannyäsa. But anyhow brähmaëas the catuh-varna, and the fifth, higher varna, paramahaàsa. That is paramahaàsa means that kaupéna."
So, he could not tolerate that the real Vaiñëava is above a real brähmaëa. Vaiñëava viñëu-jïäna, Viñëu means there is service. Brahma means withdrawal from this world, brahma-jïäna, one who has withdrawn from the charm of this mundane world and who is engaged in consideration of Brahma. But who is engaged in the service of Viñëu, who is above Brahma, his position is higher. Sarvva-vedänta-vit-koö yä viñëubhakto viçiñyate [Hari-Bhakti-Viläsa, 10.117] A vedänta-vit may be considered to be a brähmaëa but Vaiñëava is superior.
In the whole of Vraja-maëòala such conception was absent, and Prabhupäda could not recognise them as Vaiñëava proper. This is the conception of Gauòéya School , the speciality. They have imitated the dress of a Vaiñëava paramahaàsa as Rüpa and Sanätana etc, imitated, but they do not realise the real purpose of the principle of Gauòéya Vaiñëava.
Gaura Hari bol! Gaura Hari bol!
So, the form does not give us Vaiñëavism but the real material which is necessary, we must have to acquire that. What is Vaiñëavism proper we are to understand and we are to acquire it. And we must have this audacity that these brähmaëas as created by Prabhupäda, they consider themselves to be servants of the real Vaiñëava. That is fourth äçrama, and that is fifth, paramahaàsa. Vaiñëava means always paramahaàsa.
I told one of his bona fide followers of Ramakrishna Däsa Bäbäjé, who was considered to be the siddha-mahätmä, "That we consider ourselves as sannyäséns, brähmaëas, ourselves to be the servants of the real Vaiñëava, or the real Bäbäjé." He was very much pleased. Then I told, "At the same time we don't consider you to be the fifth class Bäbäjé."
Then, "Oh, this is atheism."
Again, "No. This is theism proper."
So that is the position of the Bäbäjé class and the Gauòéya Maöh claim. The Vaiñëava is always above brähmaëa. And they are afraid of the brähmaëas, the goswäméns, the gåhasthagoswäméns, the brähmaëas, general brähmaëas. Because we find in the writings of [Raghunätha] däsa Goswämé Prabhu:
gurau goñöhe goñöhälayiñu sujane bhüsuragane
[svamantre çré-nämni vraja-nava-yuva-dvandva-çaraëe
sadä dambhaà hitvä kuru ratim apürväm atitarä
maye sväntarbhrätaç caöubhir abhiyäce dhåta-padaù ]
["O mind - my brother! I fall at your feet and implore you: 'Give up all pride and always taste ecstatic love while remembering the divine guide, the holy abode of Våndävana, the cowherds and milkmaids of Vraja, the loving devotees of the Supreme Lord Çré Kåñëa, the gods on earth or pure brähmaëas, the Gäyatré mantra, the holy Names of Çré Kåñëa and the divine youthful couple of Vraja, Çré Çré Rädhä-Govindasundara."] (Manaù-çikñä]
"I offer my obeisances to all the, bhüsuragane means brähmaëa and sujane means Vaiñëava." Däsa Goswämé offers his obeisances to all. But from the position of a paramahaàsa he says:
yat kinca tena guna mukti gatam kam gosthi samastam gitam?
"I want to confer my obeisance to all, even the insects, the birds, the beasts, shrubs, everything in this world." So in that spirit he offered his obeisance to the bhüsuragane, the brähmaëas. That does not mean that bhüsura, ordinary brähmaëa is superior to Däsa Goswämé, to a Vaiñëava proper. The Vaiñëava is always nirguëa, and brähmaëa is just in the verge of the saguëa and the nirguëa world. This is his location. But the substantial difference between the Gauòéya Maöh and the Bäbäjé class. They're fictitious, their conception of Vaiñëavism is a fictitious one, not nirguëa proper, because they're afraid of locating the position of a Vaiñëava, they're afraid to put it above brähmaëism . That is their weakness, and there is the difference, so we do not have any respect for them. That is a hypocritical, imaginative bhajana, not real.
Devotee : So after Gaura Kiçora Däsa Bäbäjé Mahäräj, practically there may not be any proper bäbäjés.
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara S wämé : Proper bäbäjés, and there was one Vamsi Däsa Bäbäjé Mahäräj, anyhow, by the dint of their previous life they are real Vaiñëava.
Devotee : So your Guru Mahäräj, in the beginning he was chanting for some time three läkhs daily…
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara S wämé : Three läkhs. And sometimes we are told in one month he finished crores, hundred läkhs in a month, he did so in his life previous to his preaching inspiration. First he had reluctance to come into the public life, that preaching life. Bhaktivinoda Öhäkura wanted to entrust him with Yoga-Piöha Mandeer service, but he hesitated, our Guru Mahäräj.
Then Bhaktivinoda Öhäkura gave him impression, "Then what do you know, want? Do you feel the responsibility of the service of Mahäprabhu that is a burden? Then do you like to be a nirviçeña-vädé ? That you want this mukti of their conception, you consider the service to be a disturbing thing, and go on with your bhajana?"
Then that put our Guru Mahäräj in a hesitating mood, and then he was thinking what to do, how to begin the life of preaching, Bhaktivinoda Öhäkura wanted him to do so. At that time, suddenly carried by the wind, a part of the book of Caitanya-caritämåta , a leaf, came to him. And he found there Mahäprabhu is asking Sanätana Goswämé, "Please do these four-fold services for the society."
lokta tirtha udar sadacar govardhana? then…
Devotee : Bhakti sastra vraja vigraha pratistha?
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara S wämé : Then Guru Mahäräj took it that this is the will of the Divine. "I shall have to take up these services." And he was thinking to begin such life. At that time Gaura Kiçora Däsa Bäbäjé Mahäräj passed away. And then Kuïja Bäbu, later on [Çrépäd Bhakti Viläs] Tértha Mahäräja, he came to meet him. And he could recognise that young man that he will be able to help him a great deal. Guru Mahäräj's nature was like that of a philosopher, not a mixing temperament with the public. But Kuïja Bäbu supplied that side. He could mix with the public and anyhow he could bring persons to Prabhupäda and Prabhupäda could speak about çästra. So this combination gradually grew this Gauòéya Mission. The material help of Kuïja Bäbu and the spiritual, the father and mother of the Mission, the core founders of the Gauòéya Maöh, the practical material side service that was done by Kuïja Bäbu, and the spiritual service.
Prabhupäda wanted one, once he told in Benares, I heard it direct from his lips. "I want only good audience. And Kuïja Bäbu has done that best of the Lord." In other words, "Amongst all my disciples Kuïja Bäbu has served me best by taking near me a good audience. I only want a good audience, proper audience, I want nothing else in this world. And in that direction Kuïja Bäbu has helped me greatly." I heard with my own ears in Benares.
That is the difference between the sahajiyäs and the Gauòéya Vaiñëavas, that Vaiñëavism is nirguëa and Brahmanism is in the last plane of saguëa world. Brahma is the verge of saguëa, and the basis of nirguëa, and the nirguëa, from Brahma the nirguëa world begins. That is the world of service, the world of dedication. And Brahma is:
brahma-bhütaù prasannätmä , na çocati na käìkñati
samaù sarveñu bhüteñu , mad-bhaktià labhate paräm
["The spotlessly pure-hearted and self-satisfied soul who has attained to his conscious divine nature neither grieves nor craves for anything. Seeing all beings equally (in the conception of My supreme energy), he gradually achieves supreme devotion (prema-bhakti ) unto Me."] [ Bhagavad-gétä , 18.54]
That is positive, Vaiñëava dharma is positive, and Brahman means withdrawal from the negative side, that is Brahmanism. Positive participation to the highest acme, that is Vaiñëavism. That Näräyaëa [parsanaya?] and Kåñëa [parsanaya?] two-fold. The lower half Näräyaëa [parsanaya?], and the higher half Kåñëa [parsanaya?]. In Vraja the highest conception of service. The gap is filled up by Gauòéya Maöh.
Devotee : Mahäräj, there was one story in the Sarasvaté-jayaçré of some persons in Navadwépa, smarta-brähmaëas, and they were trying to show defects in the Gauòéya sampradäya by stating that the Gaura-mantra was not bona fide. So Bhaktisiddhänta Saraswaté Öhäkura came with the Caitanya-Upaniñad and defeated those persons. Do you know about that story?
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara S wämé : Caitanya-Upaniñad ?
Devotee : Yes. Caitanya-Upaniñad he used to show that the Gaura-mantra is coming from the Vedas, the Atharva-Veda.
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara S wämé : That maybe, that is not a very known incident, not broadly known. But Caitanya-Upaniñad , Bhaktivinoda Öhäkura found it out from Atharva-Veda , a part of Atharva-Veda as Caitanya-Upaniñad and it was published, that Caitanya-Upaniñad. Have you seen it?
Devotee : Yes. I have that copy.
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara S wämé : Caitanya-Upaniñad , a part of Atharva-Veda . But that has not wide recognition amongst the public. And we find, in Bhakti-Ratnä-kara when Narottama Öhäkura installed Çré Vigraha sevä of Mahäprabhu in his own house in Kheturi, then he invited all the stalwarts of the then Vaiñëava sampradäya . And Çréniväsa Äcärya he was given the leading part, and he installed Gaura Mürti and he worshipped Them. And then he was asked that, "In what mantram you have worshipped this Gaura Mürti here?"
He told that, "I have worshipped in kåñëa-mantra inauguration, the bija-mantra, krsna bija-mantra I have worshipped," to his friend circle.
These are things which we understand with a little boldness, the value of mantram. Once I was challenged by a friend of our own school, "That the names of the sannyäséns and others are not found in previous çästra." I answered to them, "That what we find created by the present authentic äcäryas, mantram, that created, that is given to us by the authentic äcärya, that has got not less value than those that were previously seen by the Åñis."
My point of argument was such that if we consider Çrémad-Bhägavatam and the teachings of Mahäprabhu to be the full-fledged theism, and in Veda, Upaniñad, we find the conception of the Absolute in a very crude form, undeveloped form, and the Åñis are not creator, they're seer. Mantram is nityam, eternal. They pass through their mind so with the spiritual eye they could see, they are seer only, onlookers. "The mantram is passing through me." Just as Mahäprabhu told when teaching Sanätana, drusta [?] not srusta [?]. The Åñis are not srusta mantram but drusta. Drusta means it is eternal, it is from the eternal world, it is coming down here and they're the first onlookers. So it comes from them, Åñis.
And the undeveloped stage of theism those Åñis they are seer and they are supposed to be the creator, and now also in the case of full-fledged theism who can really understand the higher dignity of this full-fledged theism? What mantram comes from them is not of less importance. These persons are more than Åñis. Am I clear?
Devotee : The Åñis are drusta [?]
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara S wämé : Suppose something has come from Bhaktivinoda Öhäkura, or Prabhupäda, or some such respected Vaiñëava äcärya, they have got inspiration of giving that sort of thing to the world for the propaganda. So it has got its value. Not only it is not unreal but a greater value. Because [ordinary she?] they're appreciater of crude conception of theism, that is conception of Brahma, Paramätmä. And Bhagavän and Kåñëa, the highest form of development of theism, and who can conceive Him, recognise Him, understand that that is the highest conception of theism, so any mantram or anything like that, if inspiration is coming through there, that is more valuable. That has got more authenticity.
Otherwise what are they? They are worshippers, they are preachers, they are appreciaters, they have devoted them to the highest cause, they have got no foundation, no particular position in the plane that he can feel things of the highest order within their heart and give it out to the public.
So any bona fide devotee of Mahäprabhu, if he thinks in his heart that, "This sort of thing, this sort of mantram, and other things that are necessary for Gauralélä," and he has expressed that, then that is more valuable than ordinary çästra, Veda, Upaniñad, etc,. That is my conviction. Otherwise we can't say that this is full-fledged theism, this is highest form of theism, and those that can appreciate this highest form of theism their position is nothing? Their position is not serious? So our conviction in the highest form of theism, that is to be doubted if we could not give such position to the espouser of the highest form of theism, if we shrink to give that sort of respectable position to the present äcärya.
Sanätana Goswämé he says that, "When writing this Båhat-Bhägavatämåta, someone is forcing me to write this. It is not I who is writing. I have no audacity, such audacity that I can enter into the harem of Kåñëa and I can compare - Rukmini's such, Satyabhäma is such and such. What audacity have I got to deal with them? But someone is forcing me to write."
Kaviräja Goswämé says this,
ekam sada kayam maya madan mohan?
"It is true, cent per cent true." So the present ä cäryas they're not of less position than the former Åñis, but they have got greater position. And they have to give to the public to deal with higher conceptions of theism. So they're äcäryas of higher order, the present, though modern, we may think them to be modern, but at the same time if we think what Mahäprabhu gave, what Bhägavatam has given, that is the developed condition of theism, than given by Upaniñad, Veda, in the previous limited age. If we really realise this then we must give the position of the propounders, the äcäryas of the full-fledged theism to that importance. Otherwise we are all hypocrites…
End of recording, 12/13.8.81
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