His Divine Grace Çréla Bhakti Rakñaka Çrédhara Deva Goswämé Mahäräj
25.9.81
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara Swämé : …………………to come to us, but this is your vision, but my vision is this, that a jéva is in the ocean, up and down with the waves, going down gradually, and anyhow he has come to the shore. And again I shall push him into the ocean? We consider his eternal live. This time he has come to you but he has his eternal chain of life in birth and death. And he can only be saved, back to God, back to home, he's coming home and I shall push him into this ocean of death and birth? I can't be so cruel. Do you feel?
Devotee : Hmm.
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara Swämé : So, who wants to come under the banner of Mahäprabhu but cannot put faith in the present ä cärya , we are not going to take away, to entice those that are going to ISKCON. But those that won't go to ISKCON but wants Kåñëa consciousness and Mahäprabhu, we want to help those souls, if possible, if necessary. 'Please come.' How can we say, 'no, no, we won't help.' That is the spirit. Kåñëa is all. Mahäprabhu is everything. Swämé Mahäräj is our friend. Let them judge. Ha, ha. Whatever we come we shall have to.
Gaura Hari bol! Nitäi. Nitäi. Nitäi.
Devotee : So, yesterday in the second chapter of Caitanya-Bhägavat there was one explanation about Lord Caitanya's older brother, Viçvarüpa.
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara Swämé : Yes.
Devotee : So I was wondering, what was, Viçvarüpa is also taken as a non-different form of Balar äma?
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara Swämé : Yes.
Devotee : How does that coincide with Nityänanda Prabhu? What was Their relationship?
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara Swämé : Yes. Balar äma means some, His function was not exactly so high as that of Nityänanda, so He was absorbed by Nityänanda, He entered into Nityänanda. Nityänanda's activities and importance in the service Lord Gauräìga was great in magnitude. And Viçvarüpa's connection is less powerful. It may be a type of Saìkarñana, Saìkarñana. Nityänanda Prabhu, Balar äma of Våndävana, Balar äma of Dvärakä , Balar äma of Vaikuëöha , the Saìkarñana, different mission for difference also as in the personality of Kåñëa. So, that is also a little lower type. And He entered into Nityänanda, finished His function. Here also He had some connection with Bala Gopäla, not direct, that (tesi vipra?) case. For the third time He, His arrangement was to cook the…………………….? and again, and to offer it to Bäla Gopäla. But he did not have the chance of looking at this pastimes, arranged from a distance. And then, when the vipra offered to Bäla Gopäla they're all begging, eager and busy to keep Bäla Gopäla in a confined room. But without their notice Bäla Gopäla came out and took prasädam and ……….sri vipra when he came Bäla Gopäla showed him His position, that of Kåñëa of Vraja, and he was benumbed with his joy that his ista devata, the ideal of the Lord for which he's passing his days, has come before him in his present vision and he's found his mission is successful.
But Viçvarüpa's function was to connect but He could not present Himself in that area. So little distant He had……………? We may find He has got inclination, intense inclination towards Kåñëa's working, but we do not find any clear shape of that working, nor in the line of Çré Caitanyadeva as He inaugurated. Only He wanted that Nimäi may not stay at home and go on with household life, but He must come out and become a sannyäsé. In a dream He appeared before Nimäi and asked Him to follow Him in the path of sannyäsa. But not any positive instruction that You must engage Yourself eternal bhajana or kértana of the Kåñëa, that we don't get from Him in any definite and positive act. But the negative side He's helping. So, the lower phase of Nityänanda we may find in Him, in Viçvarüpa. Çacé Devé, she has got appreciation in Nitäi, she saw Viçvarüpa, one Viçvarüpa, the elder brother of Nimäi.
Gaura Hari bol! Gaura Hari bol! Gaura Hari bol!
So Viçvarüpa is Saìkarñaëa, but a little, Nityänanda was a little higher, holding higher position, aàça vamsi, in this way, aìgani, aìga, Nityänanda Prabhu aìgani and Viçvarüpa is aìga.
Hare Kåñëa. Hare Kåñëa. Nitäi.
Devotee : So Viçvarüpa stayed in the background.
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara Swämé : Yes.
Devotee : Most of the time.
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara Swämé : Background, not in the direct lélä of Mahäprabhu.
…
Devotee : I'd forgotten that I added it, that…
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara Swämé : To help the spiritual, subservient not presubservient to the spiritual ideal, social, political. Of course we cannot avoid society and a sort of politics, but that must be subservient to the pure spiritual life. And it is difficult to stick to that principle throughout the life. One must be a bona fide student, otherwise they're influenced by the environment and enters into this socio-political life, of the structure, or personally, or in the group, that is a danger. That is, the cause is pratiñöhä , pratiñöhä is the cause. That is the greatest enemy to a devotee. The greatest enemy of the devotee is pratiñöhä, self-consideration, pratiñöhä. 'I want to establish myself in a separate glory.' Ha, ha. My glory means in my surrendering in the slavery of Kåñëa, Guru, Kåñëa, surrendering in slavery, in promoting the negative aspect of my life, and never any positive. And who is established there in the normal negative feeling of his highest ideal, he can, on the behalf of his master, he can enter the political activity of this world. But he's head already one with his master, only he can assert, he can chastise, he can control. That is considered to be,
praläpita vacra?
that is, madness in Gurudeva. That is not, Gurudeva saying, "I am not normal here. When I am inspired by my Lord to control, to correct, to assume the subjective activity, I am abnormal. My normal identification is only in the service cent per cent. But when I am to take some püja from the disciple, to assert in a particular way, to chastise, and to fight with the society, that is all abnormal function, that is not mine, that is only by inspiration. I cannot but do that. That is not my action, power from up, that is,
praläpita vacra?
Mahäprabhu Himself says, "Sanätana, I am teaching you so many high things, but this is not Mine, it is only passing through Me I feel. What I say, I am like in a delirium what I say to you. But I can't check, Kåñëa is passing through Me. Apparently I am speaking but in fact it is not so. What I say I don't know. I am talking deliriously."
And our Prabhupäda [Çréla Bhaktisiddhänta Saraswaté Öhäkura] also mentioned in a letter to our Kuïja Bäbu [the name previously used by Çrépäd Bhakti Viläs Tértha Mahäräj], praläpita vacra? When he's giving advice to Kuïja Bäbu in a particular way,
jaya amar praläpita vacra?
the disciple, to correct him, to chastise him, praläpita vacra? "I am asserting myself. I can't serve Kåñëa. I can't follow the advice of Mahäprabhu. I am burning wholesale inside." That is the normal position, the negative position, crying, burning. "I can't get service, I can't do it, come to the point, to the point." The burning desire for service in connection with infinite, such should be the attitude of a servitor. "I can't do, I can't do, I am helpless. How I shall be able to do?" The hankering in the background to do but the unfitness on the surface, I am unfit." That will be the inner feeling of a true servitor of Kåñëa, Mahäprabhu.
Gaura Hari bol! Gaura Hari bol! "I want more, I want more." Na prema-gandho 'sti:
[na prema-gandho 'sti daräpi me harau, krandämi saubhägya-bharaà prakäçitum
vaàçé-viläsy-änana-lokanaà vinä, vibharmmi yat präëa-pataìgakän våthä ]
[Çré Caitanya Mahäprabhu said: "My dear friends, I have not the slightest tinge of love of Godhead within My heart. When you see Me crying in separation, I am just falsely exhibiting a demonstration of My great fortune. Indeed, not seeing the beautiful face of Kåñëa playing His flute, I continue to live My life like an insect, without purpose."]
[Caitanya-caritämåta, Madhya-lélä, 2.45]
"Not even a speck, a particle of prema in Me," Mahäprabhu says, "a particle of divine love not yet I have got." The highest ideal is of such nature. "Not even a drop of that nectar of divine love I have in Me. I am a mad man. All is imitation, all these feats that I show as a player that I have got love for the divinity, it is all play, a false play."
Gaura Hari bol! That is the role we are to make progress for, and that role we are to work. No tinge of satisfaction, no possibility, longing for, longing. Gaura Hari bol! Gaura Hari bol!
Devotee : Mahäräj, once, you were explaining the nature of bhakti and you said that bhakti is such that we can see it in others but we cannot detect bhakti in ourselves.
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara Swämé : Yes, in two ways we can conceive. We can see that it is there in others. His activity, his nature, shows that he has, his practices, shows that he has bhakti, confidence in Kåñëa. But I don't feel that thing in me. But we can see in others. This is one thing. Another thing in him from the negative side - whenever he's asked, "Why do you go on the false stage, you are engaged in a false chase - the wild-goose chase - we don't get, why do you go that way? Then he will be furious, "Don't talk with me, to read this." Then, visaya katha, what is not connected with the Lord, if any topics, he won't be able tolerate that, but, "say about Kåñëa," if we talk about any other thing, "Oh, we can't tolerate, can't tolerate. No, I want to hear about Kåñëa." That will be, in that way if you think that you have got no love for Kåñëa then you hear all these things, what is not Kåñëa, "No, no, this material. I won't, I'll do anything to say about Kåñëa." That is a point of measurement from the indirect side, indirect evidence. And direct, they feel, "Oh, there is bhakti here. But only I fail to achieve."
savay krsna bhajan kavay e matra?
He sees that everyone, everyone, they're obeying Kåñëa, only I am ……………….?
As much as he approaches to mahä-bhägavata adhikara, so selfish, "that everyone has got, I can't get." That sort of selfishness goes in indirect way. "I can't." He wants more and more. So much is given to him he will feel earnestly in demand. "No, I want, I can't be without, more please." That is the nature. Mahä-bhäva. "I can reach so much and you are giving only this, a point, how I can be satisfied?" Here, the real hunger has got no limit, foodstuff is very small quantity. Ha, ha, he, he, he, he. They're satisfied with a little morsel of food, they are feeling, "Yes, I have got enough." But we want more and more, unquenched, unquenchable thirst you have got. That is the peculiar thing of mahä-bhäva, hungry, in the infinite hunger to eat everything. Eat means serving, we must not forget, that in the form of service. "I want to serve everything, the whole service, it is my responsibility to offer to actually to do the whole service of Kåñëa. Otherwise I can't live. The whole service must be given to me. If you want to allow my, myself to me, I can't."
The ant and elephant, Gandhi told, the difference must be observed between ant and elephant. If in elephant standard you give to the ant standard, food, if you distribute to the elephant, elephant will go on, will be finished.
So, Rädhäräëé's elephant standard [retire?] And so are all else almost ant standard with us, sevon small, one lakh of elephant food, one lakh of ant may be fed by that. Hare Kåñëa. Hare Kåñëa. But in the soil of infinite there's no question of any want, no want. As much as you can you take to satisfy your fullest thirst for hunger. So to hanker more, that is the qualification, no question of want there. So increase your hunger, go on increasing hunger, thirst, go on increasing thirst to drink nectar, no question of want. Eka bindu jagat dubai, one drop is sufficient to quench the thirst of the whole world, Mahäprabhu says. This is a partial acquaintance of the infinite, that the one drop is enough to satisfy the whole. The most voracious features in mahä-bhäva……
…
Nitäi Gaura Hari bol! Nitäi Gaura Hari bol! Nitäi Gaura Hari bol!
Devotee : Qualitative dependence?
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara Swämé : Qualitative difference must be there, also the quantitative difference in Rädhäräëé. The lower quality food and less quantity may satisfy ant, but in the case of elephant, not only quantity but quality should also be improved. Even in the comparison of an elephant may not be of such type, but in the case of a Vaiñëava world, both quantity and quality. Higher hunger is not in quantity but in quality also, otherwise higher earnestness can't come, only not quantity, but quality, quality, to maintain the hunger of that standard, high standard, not only quantity, quality also necessary. Hare Kåñëa.
Just as if you want to have a big construction, small construction may be earthen or maybe wooden, but big structure if you are to construct then quality of the stuff is necessary, so mayram? or rather, hard stuff is necessary to have a big construction. The earthen construction may break down. Wooden construction may not stay for long time. In this way, the greater, the higher, both in quality and quantity. Hare Kåñëa. Otherwise the durability will be challenged.
Devotee : Mahäräj, that taste is according to sukåti?
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara Swämé : Yes, sukåti. [Ordinarily?] the sukåti begins, but on the way it may be changed, modified. Sädhu-saìga, Bilvamaìgala Öhäkura started with some sukåti that in the beginning was not very good quality. But on his way he came across the greater ideal, when he was on the way, walking, came. The law is there and also sweet will also there, not only of the Supreme but also of the servitors. Yet he, it is difficult to chalk out any final line of action when so many free agents are concerned about that. Otherwise their freedom will be checked.
It is difficult, like in a mathematical way to calculate that this must reach the moon, the rocket must reach the moon. In such a way it has calculation. But when they're hampered we are to detect another planet in particular side, "Oh, attraction for that, there was a fault in our calculation. Another body's attracting, so the path, you are not straight." By method of residue we are to find out another planet. It must go this side, the captures in this that, another calculation it must go, chalk out the way in this way. But when we see that it is not gone in that way then another body is attracting, interacting in the way.
So also, there are so many sädhus, they have got their independent will. They come across, and they from there, the passenger may get some more help. The quality may be improved. So the material, final calculation is not possible in the case of the spiritual independent world where so many good spirit wills are travelling, wandering, hither thither. And their motive is to help the passengers always.
Kåñëa. Travellers. Nitäi. Nitäi. Nitäi. Nitäi. Gaura Hari bol!
Gaura Hari bol! Gaura Hari bol! Gaura Hari bol!
Devotee : Mahäräj, you often describe that the diseased condition is when one considers he has already attained the object. This is a diseased condition. One's hunger has already been fulfilled. So you said that that is unhealthy position. Just like this man came and said paramänanda, one man came and said, "I am paramänanda." And you were saying that this is diseased condition to think you are filled up.
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara Swämé : He was satisfied, not in want. Who came here? "I am paramänanda , I am fulfilled." Oh, this [Batchi?] "I am in full ecstasy." Ha, ha, ha, ha.
Devotees : Ha, ha, ha, ha.
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara Swämé : That is a diseased condition. "I am hungry." That is rather healthy sign, sign of health.
Devotee : Mahäräj, in Bhägavatam there's that one verse,
vayaà tu na vitåpyäma , uttama-çloka-vikrame
[yac-chåëvatäà rasa-jïänäà, svädu svädu pade pade]
[We never tire of hearing the transcendental pastimes of the Personality of Godhead, who is glorified by hymns and prayers. Those who have developed a taste for transcendental relationships with Him relish hearing of His pastimes at every moment.]
[ Çrémad-Bhägavatam, 1.1.19]
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara Swämé : Oh, vayaà tu na vitåpyäma, uttama-çloka-vikrame. No end of satisfaction. Not that we are disgusted, vitåpyäma does not mean that we are disgusted with all these topics, but our thirst increasing more and more as much as we hear about this, thirst increasing. Kåñëa. Hare Kåñëa.
Devotee : Without sädhu-saìga we could not get that taste. They say svädu svädu pade pade, that we could not get…
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara Swämé : Svädu svädu pade pade , as much we taste, so much we hanker and again supplied with a new taste, new taste, new taste.
prati padam purnam…………………..?
Ever new, not stale, svädu svädu pade pade, at every point we are having new satisfaction, satisfaction of new type.
Devotee : Without sädhu-saìga we cannot get that. Without sädhu-saìga it's not possible.
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara Swämé : Yes, sädhu-saìga , grantha-saìga. Sometimes within when discussing about the çloka or any word of sädhu, within also may be evolved. Sädhu-saìga not only externally but internally also we can have sädhu-saìga, or caitya-guru as we may say, sädhu-saìga may be internal. I am saying of a sädhu, I am thinking a new light may come to me. And any çästra also I am thinking about the meeting, new illumination may come.
Devotee : Mahäräj, once you described that caitya-guru, he is the impression which the spiritual master has left within one's heart.
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara Swämé : That may be the guide.
Devotee : Guide?
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara Swämé : Mmm. My Gurudeva has said so. I could not understand that, but by recapitulating within me now unfolding new light, caitya-guru, the Guru when I am associating him in my mind, internally, caitya-guru. Guru that is within me, when I am having association with my Guru, a sort of relativity… That this is so then it must be so and so. In this way, out of the law of relativity, many things will come from within. In our inner nature also we pray to Gurudeva and he also may send new light to me. The çästra also can do so. [Chit tastta?] That is within. Chit tatta, chit means pure consciousness, from there it comes, not through eye, not through ear, without the help of the external senses. From within, from higher self it may come down to me, verified with the other advises of our Gurudeva when he delivered it to you in book or in his talk. In this way so many things we realise. So many new things we may realise in the line. But we must be cautious also that it may not spring from any mundane desire.
Bhukti-mukti-spåhä:
[bhukti-mukti-spåhä yävat, piçäcé hådi varttate
tävad bhakti-sukhasyätra , katham abhyudayo bhavet]
["How can the joy of holy devotion appear in the heart as long as it is haunted by the ghosts of desire for exploitation and renunciation?"]
[ Bhakti-rasämåta-sindu , Pürvva, 2.22]
Neither from exploitation, nor from renunciation spirit, it must be serving, serving plane, and that also not conditional service, not very watchful and awe inspired service of Vaikuëöha, but spontaneous, automatic, for love, for sacrifice, not for any gain in return. All these tests must be put there, that I got from my Gurudeva and çästra . From that test, test must be, it may spring from my lower nature, how to differentiate from that. So sometimes I may put to our confidential associates, "I got this sort of insinuation within, revelation, whether it is revelation or it is some old remnant of any sleeping desire. What do you say my friend?" We can test it, if there is any doubt there, any suspicion, any hesitation, we may put to test to those whom we rely on. So sädhu-saìga, bodhayantaù parasparam:
mac-cittä mad-gata präëä , bodhayantaù parasparam
[kathayantaç ca mäà nityaà, tuñyanti ca ramanti ca]
["My devotees mix together, talk about Me, and exchange thoughts that give consolation to their hearts. And they live as if this talk about Me is their food. It gives them a high kind of pleasure, and they find that when they talk about Me among themselves, they feel as if they are enjoying My presence."] [ Bhagavad-gétä , 10.9]
They say what is…………………………..? By that it will be consolidated, purified, and the journey will be a safe one.
Devotee : So then, you said when the quality increases then the quantity…
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara Swämé : Decreases. Quality increases, bodhayantaù parasparam, the same circle will be limited and more limited. The quantity will decrease. And the scripture also, not ordinary, higher scripture only can help you in that stage. And a few friends only can help you in that stage. So quantity decreases in this way.
Gaura Hari bol! Nitäi. Nitäi. Dayal Nitäi. Dayal Nitäi. Dayal Nitäi. Nitäi Gaura Hari bol!
Have you taken anything, päraëa ?
Devotee : I was reading Bhagavad-gétä , the karma of the living entity has no beginning. So how is something that is temporary, is not eternal, can be without beginning?
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara Swämé : It already has got its beginning. But that does not come within the jurisdiction of the world of limitation. Because when jév ätmä by the exercise of his free will out of curiosity first enters into this mäyic land, from then he came as the factor of this limited world. So his participation is beyond the beginning of this limited world. So it is said anädi. Anädi means it does not come within the jurisdiction of this limited world, thought of limitation. First participation, then entrance into the world of consideration.
Form of thought, first participation, and then come within the calculation. Calculation is not possible in the eternal world, in our way. So, he came within the jurisdiction of our calculation after participation. So the beginning is before, anädi , before this finite relativity, finite relativity, that is the calculation of this mundane sphere. The eternal thing is entering into a final area. So anädi means it should be traced previous, previous history unknown in this mundane world.
An American entering into India and the CID is keeping his history, direction, and his report to the Government. From his entrance when he landed here, from that he can be history, but he may have his history beyond entrance into India in America. That is unknown, something like that. Hare Kåñëa.
Devotee : Mahäräj, you said in this world, you mean in this janma?
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara Swämé : In this janma ?
Devotee : Yes, in this lifetime.
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara Swämé : Yes. The history may be done internally. In Bengal and Punjab can be traced, but in Russia it may not be traced. Something like that. This janma, the sukra-deha, that is within the book of Yämaräja it may be found. This previous life he was there, there in this way he's under jurisdiction. This life of flesh and bone and this mental body, but not from one body passing into another body, that is in the record of the provincial secretariat. That is also mundane but subtle and gross, and with different grosses. Number one birth, number two, three, four, but that is in the jurisdiction of the material agents, inspectors. And only the eternal soul which has entered here and takes, getting so many dresses, before entrance into the jurisdiction of India what was his nature of life or activity, it is unknown. So that is anädi, his entrance is…