His Divine Grace Sréla Bhakti Rakñaka Srédhara Deva Goswämé Mahäräj
Start of part two, 27.7.82
Devotee : They are not initiated into ISKCON. They have known about ISKCON for some time.
Swämé B.R. Çrédhara : Oh, these two?
Devotee : These three. This boy's name is Cornelius, this is Hans and this is Eric.
Swämé B.R. Çrédhara : Now, what for they have come to India?
Devotee : Pilgrimage.
Swämé B.R. Çrédhara : They speak Dutch?
Devotee : They also speak English.
Swämé B.R. Çrédhara : English also?
Devotee : Yes.
Devotee : We came to just visit the holy places like Navadwépa, Våndävana, Puré. That was the main reason we came to India.
Swämé B.R. Çrédhara : How have you come to know all these things, by books?
Devotee : Yes, by books, Prabhupäda Bhaktivedänta.
Swämé B.R. Çrédhara : What books?
Devotee : Bhagavad-gétä.
Swämé B.R. Çrédhara : Gétä As It Is by Swämé Mahäräja?
Devotee : Yes.
Swämé B.R. Çrédhara : All right. Long, long before, one German scholar he stressed his opinion that the Gétä is the highest spiritual book. And his point was that Gétä clearly advises us not to correct the environment but correct your own self to adjust with the environment. That is the key of the advice of Gétä. Cure thyself. You have no power to bring about change in the environment. That is the Divine Will. That is irremovable. The result of all the forces that are acting outside, you have no hand to interfere with that. That will be useless loss of energy only. Try to correct yourself so that you can adjust with the circumstances outside. This is the key to success of life.
Devotee : We have to appreciate also the life outside.
Swämé B.R. Çrédhara : Yes.
tat te 'nukampäà susamékñamäëo , bhuïjäna evätma-kåtaà vipäkam
håd-väg-vapurbhir vidhadhan namas te , jéveta yo mukti-pade sa däya bhäk
("One who, in the hope of achieving Your grace, goes on enduring the inauspicious fruit of his own karma, and passes his days practising devotion unto You in every thought, word, and deed - such a person is heir to the land of freedom: he attains to the plane of positive immortality.")
(Çrémad-Bhägavatam, 10.14.8)
You have your duty to do but don't aspire after the result, mä phaleñu kadäcana:
(karmaëy evädhikäras te, mä phaleñu kadäcana
mä karma-phala-hetur bhür , mä te saìgo 'stv akarmaëi )
("I shall now describe niñkäma karma-yoga, the path of selfless action. You have a right to perform your natural prescribed duties, but you are not entitled to any fruits of that action. You should neither act with desire to enjoy the fruits of your work, nor, as a result, should you be attached to neglecting your duties.")
( Bhagavad-gétä , 2.47)
The result depends on the external force. You have your contribution. There are thousands of läkhs (100,000) of contributions of others and the result, that will create the environment. So you may contribute, you may give up your quota. But what you will find, you are to take it as the best because it is the interference of the highest, of the Absolute there. That so many result of so many individual activity but harmonised by the Absolute Will. You are to see and look at it like that and adjust yourself accordingly.
tat te 'nukampäà susamékñamäëo , bhuïjäna evätma-kåtaà vipäkam
håd-väg-vapurbhir vidhadhan namas te , jéveta yo mukti-pade sa däya bhäk
("One who, in the hope of achieving Your grace, goes on enduring the inauspicious fruit of his own karma, and passes his days practising devotion unto You in every thought, word, and deed - such a person is heir to the land of freedom: he attains to the plane of positive immortality.")
(Çrémad-Bhägavatam, 10.14.8)
In Bhägavat it is said, and Gétä says: karmaëy evädhikäras te , you have responsibility in only discharging your duty, your quota, mä phaleñu kadäcana, and never aspire after any definite environment. It will go in its own way. You can't transform it, you can't change it, you have no power to change the circumstance, the environment. You try your best to change your own self so that the suit, that you may come in consonance with the environment. Karmaëy evädhikäras te, mä phaleñu kadäcana, never in the result, never in the consequence of your action. You are doing some thing but the result you find another thing. So because I work for this particular result and I don't find that so I should be discouraged? No. You go on doing your own duty and it is throwing in the Infinite and Infinite will shape it in Its own way. Whatever you are contributing, contribute it towards the Infinite and the Infinite will mould it in Its own way. You are not to detect that. If you do that you are lost. Karmaëy evädhikäras te, mä phaleñu kadäcana, mä karma-phala-hetur bhür, never aspire after any particular consequence of your action. Mä te saìgo 'stv akarmaëi, at the same time don't be idle, don't be worthless. Go on discharging your duty, go on discharging your duty independent of any consequence outside.
Devotee : But we have to remember Kåñëa. While we are doing this we have to remember Kåñëa.
Swämé B.R. Çrédhara : Yes. Then you'll be able to come in the relativity of Kåñëa, the Autocrat outside. And you'll gradually come to realise that that is friendly. When your previous actions will disappear in this way, you will find everything, every wave carrying good news to you. When your egoistic attitude will vanish you will find yourself in the midst of the sweet wave all around. To do away with what wrong you have done hitherto, such attitude is necessary. Do your duty, never expect for any definite result. You cast it towards Infinite and then one day will come when you'll find when your egoistic feeling will be dissolved and from within your real self, real member of the Infinite will spring up, awaken, you will find yourself in the sweet wave of the environment, everything is sweet.
madhu vada carite madhu caranta sindhava
madvena santosa dina damat santosana madhu madhu madhu ?
Sweet, sweet, sweet, everything. The breeze is sweet, the water is sweet, the trees are sweet. Whatever you come in contact with, everything is sweet. Your internal ego is you enemy and to dissolve that ego such process is necessary. Do your duty as you think fit but never expect any response according to your will.
Then this karma-yoga if you adopt then in no time you will find that the wrong ego or who was expecting something crooked for you selfish purpose, that vanishes, and the broad, wide ego that is within, that has come out, and you are in harmony with the whole universe. The harmonious world will come before you. The cover will disappear, the cover of our selfish desire, selfish end, that will disappear. The disease is within. The cause is not outside, for everyone. A paramahaàsa Vaiñëava, a saint, he sees that everything is all right, nothing to complain. The furthest extremity everything is good, everything is sweet. Then he comes to live in the plane of divinity. The ego is creating disturbance, and that ego should be dissolved.
In Bhägavatam (10.14.8): tat te 'nukampäà, not only the environment is enemy but we shall try hard to find out that this is the grace, whatever is coming to me like enemy, this is the grace of the Lord. I can't see. The dirt is on my eye. I can't see, I see rather opposite. But everything is divine. Such searching attitude is necessary. All is grace of the Lord. Really it is so but the disease is in my eye, disease in my feeling, disease in my ear. I am diseased and if disease is cured I shall find I am in the midst of the graceful world, I am a member of the gracious world. Only the cover is deceiving me from having the real estimation of the world.
tat te 'nukampäà susamékñamäëo , bhuïjäna evätma-kåtaà vipäkam
håd-väg-vapurbhir vidhadhan namas te , jéveta yo mukti-pade sa däya bhäk
("One who, in the hope of achieving Your grace, goes on enduring the inauspicious fruit of his own karma, and passes his days practising devotion unto You in every thought, word, and deed - such a person is heir to the land of freedom: he attains to the plane of positive immortality.")
(Çrémad-Bhägavatam, 10.14.8)
You will be a bona fide student of the devotional school, who will be able to accept such attitude towards the environment towards the Lord because we are to think that His will is everywhere. Even a straw that is shaking, it can't do so if not sanctioned by the Supreme Authority. Every detail detected and controlled by Him. In this way we are to look out on the environment to be optimistic and the pessimism is with me. My ego, that is responsible for all sorts of evil. This is Vaiñëavism. If we can do so then in no time our disease will be cured and we'll be in the midst of ample, infinite blissfulness. Not to cure what we see on the outside, not to cure. Our tendency at present is like that, "that everything may be favourable to my will, my understanding," we all want that. "Let everything follow my control, my sweet will." Then we are happy. "Everything will obey me then I am happy." But just the opposite direction to be taken. Do you follow? No.
Devotee : Yes.
Swämé B.R. Çrédhara :
tåëäd api sunécena , taror api sahiñëunä
amäninä mänadena , kértanéyaù sadä hariù
("One who is humbler than a blade of grass, more forbearing than a tree, who gives due honour to others without desiring it for himself is qualified to always chant the Holy Name of Kåñëa.") ( Çikñäñöakam , 3)
No resistance we should create for the environment. Tåëäd api sunécena , taror api: still if some attack, undesirable things come towards me, I am to forbear that. To my utmost patience I am to tolerate. I won't harm, but if some attack comes to me I shall have forbearance to the extreme. Amäninä mänadena: I shall honour everyone but won't seek any honour. In this way we shall contact with the sound aspect of the Lord Himself in the Name. This is with the least energy and in the least time we can attain our highest goal. The plane of Kåñëa where He's living, that is the most fundamental plane.
We can, our inner heart, our inner soul, all these engagements will vanish, die, and the inner soul will awaken and that soul will find that he's a plane in a sweet wave dancing, dancing and merry making in Våndävana in relation to Kåñëa and His followers, His group.
Nitäi Gaura Hari bol! Nitäi Gaura Hari bol! Nitäi Gaura Hari bol!
What do you think? Is it unreasonable?
Devotee : No. It's completely ecstatic.
Swämé B.R. Çrédhara : Ha, ha, ha. Most general explanation what is Våndävana, not a fable, not any concocted story. But the broadest, the widest plane of the whole universe that is beauty and sweetness and blissfulness is there. We have to dive deep. The ego has floated us on the surface of trouble in mäyä, illusion, concoction, imagination, the selfish aspiration, crookedness, most crooked. Seeking for our selfish satisfaction, searching for selfish satisfaction has taken us here. And that must be dissolved for final, for eternity, that must be dissolved. And from within that golden self will come out and find that he's in the plane of happy, dancing mood in Våndävana, golokete sthiti. Self-determination, according to Hegel, self determination. Die to live. Die to live. If you want to have a real life, self-determination life, you'll have to die as you are at present, wholesale die.
Devotee : Leave the material life, leave all the material habits …………
Swämé B.R. Çrédhara : Yes. That ego, all these material habits from different births. Not only the experience of human birth but the animal birth, the tree birth, all these, so many births and those colours are collected in the ego in subtle forms. The wholesale dissolution of the ego, that concocted selfish figure within, that is the enemy and has covered me and my real self is buried under that, hopelessly. I do not know my own self, I do not know my own self, I can't recognise it. So far I have come from my real self. So much is the depth of my forgetfulness I do not know who I am.
So, "Die to live," Hegel says, the German philosopher. Perfectionism is the name of his philosophy. And "Reality is for Itself." The world is not created for our selfish end. It has got a universal end and I am a part and parcel of that. I must come to an understanding with the whole. The whole is there. He's dancing and playing and singing in His own way and I must go to enter into that harmonious dance. It is necessary. And I am a point. "I shall want that the whole infinite will be controlled by me, by my whim everything will go on." This is the most crooked and most heinous object ever conceived and we are suffering from such disease.
Hare Kåñëa. Hare Kåñëa. Gaura Hari Nitäi Gaura Hari bol!
Nitäi Gaura Hari bol! Nitäi Gaura Hari bol! Nitäi Gaura Hari bol!
Now any question on this?
Devotee : Mahäräja, they have one question. In the West, many people are afraid of the war. They're thinking it is coming soon.
Swämé B.R. Çrédhara : That is a point in the line, or a line in the plane, or a plane in the solid. So many times wars are coming and going. So many times the sun, earth, the solar system is disappearing and again springing up. We are in the midst of such thought in the eternity. This is a point, what of that? Every individual is dying and the earth will die. The whole human section will disappear. Let it be. Try to live in the eternity and not any particular span of time or space. Prepare yourself for that, that eternal benefit, not any particular thing. You are to be conscious of the fact that the sun, moon, planets, they come and they vanish, they die and again they are created. In such eternity we are to meet and live in. From that standpoint, religion covers that sort where you will go. Not only this body, even the human race, the animals, the trees, and with whole, the earth, the sun, all vanishes and again springs up. Karma-brahmaëòa, creation, dissolution, creation, dissolution. It will continue in the domain of misconception. At the same time there is another world which is eternal. We are requested to enter, to have a cottage in that plane which does not come in this jaw of death of any change, tad dhäma paramaà mama:
(na tad bhäsayate süryo, na çaçäìko na pävakaù
yad gatvä na nivartante , tad dhäma paramaà mama )
("My supreme holy abode is that place which the surrendered souls reach, never to return again to this deathly plane . Upon going there, one never returns to this material world. Neither sun, nor moon, nor fire - nothing can illuminate that all-illuminating supreme abode.") (Bhagavad-gétä , 15.6)
…
äbrahma-bhuvanäl lokäù , punar ävartino 'rjuna
mäm upetya tu kaunteya , punar janma na vidyate
("O Arjuna, from the planet of Lord Brahmä downwards, the residents of all planets are naturally subjected to repeated birth and death. But, O Kaunteya, upon reaching Me, there is no rebirth.") (Bhagavad-gétä, 8.16)
Up to Brahmä the creator, the creator himself also has to die. Äbrahma-bhuvanäl lokäù, punar ävartino 'rjuna, up to Brahmä-loka the whole material energy changes in such a way. But if we can cross that area of misunderstanding and proper understanding area then there is not creation as that is eternal. And our soul is a factor of that soil, a child of that soil. And the body and mind they are a child of this soil which comes and goes, is created and dies. So we are to get out of this creation and death, dissolution. Yad gatvä na nivartante , tad dhäma paramaà mama. Mäm upetya tu kaunteya, punar janma na vidyate.
You have gone through Bhagavad-gétä ?
You are in such area. What to do? So you try to get out, try your best to get out of this mortal area. And there is a zone, and you are really: çåëvantu viçve amåtasya puträù: really you are a child of the nectar that does not die. You are anyhow misguided here. But really you are a child of that soil which is eternal, no death, no birth. And with wide and broad heart we are to approach there. And that is our, Mahäprabhu or Gétä or Upaniñad, Bhägavat , they all say such. And that is very sweet, sweet home, back to God, back to home. So try you best to go home, and other also: "Come home my friends, let us go home. Why are we suffering so much in a foreign land so much trouble unnecessarily." That is real and this is rather unreal. One springing, vanishing, springing, vanishing, coming and going, coming and going. A farce, from the world of farce, come to reality. That is the point. Not only one war, but wars after wars after wars after wars, so many, this civilised war.
Your question again.
Devotee : Maybe you can give some advice. It is difficult for us to make a choice …
Devotee : So Mahäräja, the question is, "How to attain this platform of eternity? How to escape this world of war?
Swämé B.R. Çrédhara : How you are getting this idea, how? This sort of dream that this is a possibility, how are you getting?
Devotee : That it is possible to escape? I was reading in …
Swämé B.R. Çrédhara : Now you have come to, "How we can attain that?" This idea how we have got?
Devotee : From Bhagavad-gétä.
Swämé B.R. Çrédhara : Bhagavad-gétä, that is çästra and çästra is also given by, written by whom? Some saint. So the association of the sädhu and çästra:
sädhu-çastra-kåpäya yadi kåñëonmukha haya
sei jéva nistare , mäyä tähäre chäòaya
("If the conditioned soul becomes Kåñëa conscious by the mercy of saintly persons who voluntarily preach scriptural injunctions and help him to become Kåñëa conscious, the conditioned soul is liberated from the clutches of mäyä, who gives him up.") (Caitanya-caritämåta, Madhya-lélä, 20.120)
The sädhu , saint, is a living scripture. And the scripture is also there in a passive way to advise you. Sädhu actively can approach and passively we may get benefit from the scripture. The association of these two can help us to have our realisation in that way.
Sädhu-çastra-kåpäya, by the grace of the scripture and the saints, the scripture personified who are living the life of the scriptural advice. They're more powerful. By their association we can imbibe such higher, subtle knowledge and faith. Faith can lead us, çraddhä , faith. All our instruments are futile. Just as if we are to connect with the sun and the moon, the air, earth, these instruments will fail. But only electricity will help to have connection with the furthest place. So çraddhä, faith, can give us information and the necessary achievement that faith can give us. It is far, far away, beyond the jurisdiction of our meagre limited experience of eye, ear, mind, all these things. It is very meagre, very limited. And faith can rise up and pierce through this area and go far away to the moon, sun, in this way.
Do you follow? Faith should be developed with the help of the scripture and the saints. That this is real and unreal. This will be night and that will be day. Now this is the day and that is night to us, all darkness. The eternal world is dark to us and we are awake in this mortal world. But the opposite has to be effected. We must be awake there and this will be neglected and will be disregarded and it will be dark to us, night.
yä niçä sarva-bhütänäà , tasyäà jägarti saàyamé
yasyäà jägrati bhütäni , sä niçä paçyato muneù
("While spiritual awareness is like night for the living beings enchanted by materialism, the self-realised soul remains awake, directly relishing the divine ecstasy of his un-interrupted spiritual intelligence. On the contrary, the wakefulness of materialistic persons addicted to sense enjoyment is night for the self-realised person who is completely indifferent to such pursuits. The realised souls, indifferent to the mundane, are ever joyful in the divine ecstatic plane, while the general mass is infatuated by fleeting mundane fancies devoid of spiritual joy.") ( Bhagavad-gétä , 2.69)
Do you understand?
Devotee : The Sanskrit I cannot understand.
Swämé B.R. Çrédhara : What is night to one is day to another.
Devotee : This I understand.
Swämé B.R. Çrédhara : A scientist, he's awake in some matter, and a dacoit he's working in another plane. They're living in two separate worlds. A saint is living in a particular world and a rowdy is living in another world. Is it not? Ones day is night to another, can't see. The ignorant ordinary persons cannot see what the Einstein and Newton has seen, they cannot see. And what they are seeing they ignore it, they don't see it in selfish life, mundane.
Hare Kåñëa. Hare Kåñëa. Gaura Hari. Gaura Hari. Gaura Hari.
Devotee : Should we associate with the saints of ISKCON or with the saints from Caitanya Association?
Swämé B.R. Çrédhara : Ha, ha. There is a direct question put. If you want my clear impartial decision I may say that what they're doing that is primary. They fail to catch the higher realisation. They're going at present in a business way. The connection with pure spirituality has been lessened there, degraded. As regards to the adherence with the highest ideal, the real ideal, according to me they have deviated and going lower to the material conception of the thing. The monopoly of trade, that is to enjoy the credit of their Gurudeva, exploiting the name of their Guru. Going far down from the high ideal, the abstract thing, and more or less being materialised. Organisation to be admired according to the ideal for which they're organised. The deviation from the high ideal then the organisation will fetch a lower value. The ideal will have the best importance.
So I cannot give ditto to their activities so they're now preaching against me and I am told that so much that they have been preaching me as a demon and I am injecting poison according to them because I say that they're below the standard. A big organisation, that is good, approaching many souls for their delivery, that is one thing, that quantity. But as regards quality they're lacking according to my decision as sincerely speaking as I feel I say so. I have got my fifty-five years experience in the Maöh and seen many things and experienced many things. Though it is not within this mundane experience but experience with the association of the sädhu, that is something. And with that experience and aspiration and as supported by our God friends also. What I can understand is that they're afraid of keeping, or making contact with Bhaktivinoda Öhäkura, Bhaktisiddhänta Sarawaté Öhäkura, and my faith. What I say I am saying from the beginning from the time of (Çréla A.C. Bhaktivedänta) Swämé Mahäräja. They're also coming during Swämé Mahäräja's lifetime many came to me, even Swämé Mahäräja, we had a talk. I think I am in that standard, my talk is of that standard. But they say that is going against them, against their Committee, their combined realisation. I have got my independent opinion. And when it comes in clash with them they say it is a poison. Of course:
sisye dikari ya nista ?
It is the fashion that the karmi will say: "This is the highest, not jïäna, not devotion." And the jïäné will say: "This is the highest, karma is also bad, devotion is also bad." To make firm the mentality of their own persons it has been adopted in the different departments of the scripture: "Do this faithfully. Don't disturb yourself with going this side or that side for then you'll not be able to finish your duty. So be attentive in your duty. This is the highest." This fashion has been adopted in the scriptures and by the Åñis also.
sisye dikari ya nista saguna parika ?
Be attentive in your own duty. Don't look hither thither for then you won't be able to do your duty perfectly. So this process has been adopted by many. But still if we want to go up we must leave the place.
çreyän sva-dharmo viguëaù , para-dharmät svanuñöhität
sva dharme nidhanaà çreyaù , para-dharmo bhayävahaù
("It is better to carry out one's own duties a little imperfectly rather than faultlessly perform another's duties. Know that even death is auspicious in the discharge of one's duties appropriate to his natural position in the ordained socio-religious system, because to pursue another's path is perilous.")
( Bhagavad-gétä , 3.35)
By discharging ones own duty he will rather die. Don't be carried by the ideals or duties of ABC and so on. Then when that stage will be finished he will automatically be put in the higher position. So jïäné's they say that: "This is all." The yogés say: "This is the best." Still there is a possibility of comparative study and we are to note that bhakti, or pure devotion, that is the highest. And there is Näräyaëa devotion and Kåñëa devotion, one is of love an the other is of duty. The differentiation, the progress, is always there. And for the lower section it is necessary sometimes: "Mind your own lesson. Then don't go to put oil in the machine of others. Oil your own machine. Don't go hither thither." This is also a class of advice. But for the ambitious they won't be satisfied with them, all won't be satisfied with that. They will hanker after progress, elimination and acceptance, progress means elimination of the present and acceptance of the future, that means progress. So one who has got a hankering for the progressive life they're compelled to neglect all these things.
sarva-dharmän parityajya , mäm ekaà çaraëaà vraja
ahaà tväà sarva-päpebhyo , mokñayiñyämi mä çucaù
("Totally abandoning all kinds of religion, surrender exclusively unto Me. I will liberate you from all kinds of sins, so do not despair.") ( Bhagavad-gétä , 18.66)
"Give up all your duties and come at once to Me and I shall look after you."
This will affect them more.
Hare Kåñëa ……..
End of recording, 26/27.7.82
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