His Divine Grace Çréla Bhakti Rakñaka Çrédhara Deva Goswämé Mahäräj
start of side B, 27 th, 29 th.12.81
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara Swämé : …mäyä is also eternal, misunderstanding, that is also eternal, this possibility, in the relativity. Kåñëa.
Devotee : I have one letter here from Bhakti Charu Mahäräja, he has written one letter from…………..
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara Swämé : It is in English or Bengali?
Devotee : Bengali……………
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara Swämé : Govinda Mahäräja, Charu Swämé………………
……..
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara Swämé : To remove the defects of all five other darçanas Vyäsadeva had to compile Vedänta darçana in their form, in a logical form, Vedänta darçana. And the Bhägavat is the commentary of that Vedänta darçana. Vedänta darçana is considered to be the flower in the tree, and Çrémad-Bhägavatam the ripe fruit. In this way the adjustment of the Vedic culture has been given, a developed form. Hare Kåñëa.
Çrédhara Swämé also in his commentary in the introduction of Bhägavatam also shown this path, that how the root is the sat-saìga, then the gäyatré, then the praëäma - oàkära, then gäyatré, then the tree Veda, and then the fruit, the flower, and then fruit - Bhägavatam , the desired ripe fruit. Çrémad-Bhägavatam - raso vai sah - is full of juice, nectar. How it has come from Veda and where from Veda comes. All these things have been described in a very nutshell way. Hare Kåñëa. Hare Kåñëa.
So that is the right way to move to the people, as least who have got some faith in the Veda, they should be dealt in such a way. 'The Veda is developing in this way.' And to show skilfully the stages of development step by step, and just like a (theorism?) in a logical way we are to show to the public that this is blossoming in this way, the bud blossoming into a flower then to fruit - how. Intermediate steps should be explained, supplied, then it will be easy to make them convinced.
Hare Kåñëa. Gaura Hari bol! Gaura Hari bol! Gaura Hari bol! Nitäi Gaura Hari bol!
Vedaiç ca sarvvair aham eva vedyaù .
[sarvasya cähaà hådi sanniviñöho, mattaù småtir jïänam apohanaà ca
vedaiç ca sarvair aham eva vedyo , vedänta-kåd veda-vid eva cäham]
["I am situated (as the Supersoul) within the heart of all souls, and from Me arises the soul's remembrance, knowledge, and the dissipation of both (according to his karma, or action in the mundane plane). I am the exclusive knowable (ecstatic) principle of all the Vedas. I am the author of the Vedänta - Vedavyäsa, the expounder of the knowable meaning of the Vedas. And certainly I am the knower of the purport of the Vedas."]
[ Bhagavad-gétä , 15.15]
"I am the object, the aim, of all the Vedic mantrams, background. They're all aiming towards Me, to prove Me."
Hare Kåñëa. In Bh ägavatam also it is said, "If it fails to do so, this varëäçrama, this Vedic tol, school's instructions, Vedic education, if they fail to take to the Supreme Lord Kåñëa then they're useless. They're wasting their energy. They're committing suicide. And anyhow if they take us, any sort of training or education takes us to the conception of Kåñëa to be the highest, it fulfils its object."
dharmaù svanuñöhithaù puàsäà, viñvaksena-kathäsu yaù
notpädayed yadi ratià, çrama eva hi kevalam
["The occupational activities a man performs according to his own position are only so much useless labour if they do not provoke attraction for the message of the Personality of Godhead."] [Çrémad-Bhägavatam, 1.2.8]
……..
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara Swämé : …but it could not produce the desired result, that Kåñëa consciousness, then that's all a waste of energy. And there is another, just the opposite.
ataù pumbhir dvija-çreñöhä , varëäçrama-vibhägaçaù
svanuñöhitasya dharmasya , saàsiddhir hari-toñaëam
[O best among the twice-born, it is therefore concluded that the highest perfection one can achieve by discharging the duties prescribed for one's own occupation according to caste divisions and orders of life is to please the Personality of Godhead.]
[Çrémad-Bhägavatam, 1.2.13]
But if one is found that he has reached to the stage of serving Kåñëa then all his duties, past duties have been successful. The certificate can be issued to him blindly. He has reached the goal. So anyhow, whatever he did, all justified, because he reached the goal. And who misses the goal, then all his grandeur in discharging his duties of different stages, that all gone, because he misses the right end, the aim, missing the aim, object of those duties. So they're all wasted. It is in Bhägavatam.
Gaura Hari bol! Gaura Hari bol! Nitäi Gaura Hari bol! Nitäi Gaura Hari bol!
Devotee : How can I chanting properly? My chanting not properly now.
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara Swämé : Chant. By the living sources, by leaving of the living influences aside. That sädhu and çästra , first sädhu and then çästra . From the association we are to draw, we are to try to get energy, direction, all in their association, favourable environment. When the medicine is failing to do its duty then we are advised to have a change of place, where unconsciously the air and water, everything, comes to our help to improve the health. Change, when the medicine fails to produce the result. So also, the environment - the environment and the energy within, two things, when the energy within is failing then strength must be acquired from the environment, favourable environment. That is the association, sat-saìga, sat-saìga. And the living, more living, the sädhus more living, and the next, passive saìga, that is scripture. Sädhu çästra , only two things can help us in our need. Guru is there. God sent sädhu for me, the agent on His behalf. Then we can concentrate to him, to his submission. Otherwise the çikñä-guru , the sädhu, and in want of that, the çästra , the scriptures who can enlighten us about the thing we need. Sädhu çästra kåpäya:
[sädhu-çastra-kåpäya yadi kåñëonmukha haya
sei jéva nistare , mäyä tähäre chäòaya]
["If the conditioned soul becomes Kåñëa conscious by the mercy of saintly persons who voluntarily preach scriptural injunctions and help him to become Kåñëa conscious, the conditioned soul is liberated from the clutches of mäyä, who gives him up."]
[Caitanya-caritämåta, Madhya-lélä, 20.120]
This is the only remedy, first sädhu, that is living scripture, and then passive, active and passive environment. Hare Kåñëa. So - and how to get association? Only through serving attitude we can have cooperation, not by indifference or by aggression, aggressive tendency. To get anything from higher, that means only through service we can, the attitude of serving, we can draw them towards us. We can make master over our lower things but when we are in want of higher things then only through serving, praìipäta , paripraçna, sevä. By these three qualifications only we can imbibe things from higher sphere, serving attitude.
……..
Devotee : …control.
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara Swämé : Gradually it will be controlled. If you want to kill an animal it takes some time to kill it. Ha, ha. So the anartha, they're there, and to dispense with them some time is necessary. But that also, the energy of killing them, to remove them, that energy we should gather from higher sources, then with less energy we can do away with them. Kibä bä karite parekäma-krodha sadhäkere , jadi haya sädhu-janara saìga.
[anyathä swatantra kämaanrthädi jära dhäma, bhakti-patha sadä deya bhaìga
kibä bä karite parekäma-krodha sadhäkere, jadi haya sädhu-janara saìga
[If lust is not controlled, then it becomes the breeding ground for a host of vices and checks one's advancement on the path of devotional service. However, if one stays in the association of the saintly devotees, then that association will carry him beyond the influence of lust, anger, and their friends.]
[Çréla Narottama Däsa Öhäkura's Çré Prema-bhakti-candrikä, 2.11]
What the lust and greed and anger can do harm to a seeker after truth, the sädhu, who is in the path of realisation of Divinity, if you can fortunately have the intimate association of a sädhu? What, in other words then they cannot do anything. Because something is being spent but another side income, coming and going; if help coming from the higher, that supersedes, then the spending, expenditure, cannot make any harm, käma-krodha sadhäkere . And there is also………. intelligent adjustment, we can get relief. It is such in Narottama Öhäkura's that: käma kåñëa-karmärpaëe:
['käma' kåñëa-karmärpaëe, 'krodha' bhaktadveñi-jäne, 'lobha' sädhu-saìga harikathä
'moha' iñöa-läbha bine, 'mada' kåñëa guëagäne, niyukta kariba yathä tathä]
[Lust I will engage in offering the fruits of my work to Lord Kåñëa. Anger I will direct towards the enemies of the devotees. Greed I will engage by being greedy to hear the topics of Lord Hari in the association of the saintly devotees. Bewilderment will be manifested because I cannot immediately attain my worshippable Lord. Madness will be there when I madly glorify the transcendental attributes of Lord Kåñëa. In this way I will engage each of these in the service of Lord Kåñëa.]
[Çréla Narottama Däsa Öhäkura's Çré Prema-bhakti-candrikä, 2.10]
Some impulse we feel within, try to utilise in the service of the impulse, that force, try to utilise it, regulate it in the service of Kåñëa. Krodha bhakta-dveñi-jäne . Some apathy, anger; try to use it against those that are antagonistic to the sädhu, to the Kåñëa bhakta. Lobha sädhu-saìge . The greed you may try to engage in hearing from the lips of the sädhu some Hari- kathä. Moha iñta-labha-bine . Sometimes depression comes, try to utilise it when you are separated from a sädhu, iñta-labha-bine. Mada kåñëa-guëa-gäne . Sometimes over energy appears within us. Engage that overflowing energy into dancing and chanting in the name of Kåñëa. Ha, ha. 'Mada' kåñëa guëagäne niyukta kariba yathä tathä . In this way some flow of energy, try to regulate them in the service of Kåñëa. Anyhow manage it and you will be free from them in no time, in this way. And there is another thing - etat sarvaà gurau bhaktyä, puruño hy aïjasä jayet.
[rajas tamaç ca sattvena, sattvaà copaçamena ca
etat sarvaà gurau bhaktyä , puruño hy aïjasä jayet ]
[One must conquer the modes of passion and ignorance by developing the mode of goodness, and then one must become detached from the mode of goodness by promoting oneself to the platform of çuddha-sattva. All this can be automatically done if one engages in the service of the spiritual master with faith and devotion. In this way one can conquer the influence of the modes of nature.]
[Çrémad-Bhägavatam, 7.15.25]
In Bhägavatam it is mentioned, Devarñi Närada is saying: asaìkalpäj jayet kämaà:
[asaìkalpäj jayet kämaà, krodhaà käma-vivarjanät
arthänarthekñayä lobhaà , bhayaà tattvävamarçanät]
[By making plans with determination, one should give up lusty desires for sense gratification. Similarly, by giving up envy one should conquer anger, by discussing the disadvantages of accumulating wealth one should give up greed, and by discussing the truth one should give up fear.] [Çrémad-Bhägavatam, 7.15.22]
You have got many designs and plans to carry out, asaìkalpäj . Don't allow yourself to enter into such big, ambitious speculation. Thereby from the start you control. Don't allow yourself to be busy with big engagements in life, ambitious engagements. Asaìkalpäj jayet kämaà.
Krodhaà käma-vivarjanät . And bad temper sometimes comes within you. Only you withdraw from the beginning. That don't settle, identify yourself fully with a particular plan, then any hindrance comes and you'll be fully entangled; and if you're not very particularly addicted to a particular plan, no chance of being excited; that krodhaà käma-vivarjanät.
Arthänarthekñayä lobhaà . Y ou have much greed for the money, you are to discriminate that what is the stage of money, money can do these things, whatever it can construct that automatically vanishes in course of time. So what is in the charm of money, arthänarthekñayä lobhaà.
Bhayaà tattvävamarçanät . And if you've got any fear, apprehension, then you are to discriminate here in the plane, tattvävamarçanät. "Oh, so many things combined, this matter, the water, the ether, the combination of everything, and everything disappears, comes and stays for some time and disappears. So the birth and death in course of nature it is coming and going everywhere. Every second something is born and something is dying." Calculating in this way you should leave your fear.
Etat sarvaà gurau bhaktyä - So many, a long list is given there in Bhägavatam. And in the conclusion it is said: etat sarvaà gurau bhaktyä, puruño hy aïjasä jayet. All these undesirables can be checked only by concentrating one's attention towards the service of his Guru. 'My Guru has ordered…oh, no fear, no other things, because my absolute guide he has ordered.' We may take this advantage and everything will disappear in no time. Etat sarvaà gurau bhaktyä, puruño hy aïjasä jayet. Very easily you'll be able to cross over all these temptations and difficulties if you can concentrate only to the divine feet of your Guru Mahäräja. 'He is my guide. I'm not my own. I belong to him. Whatever he'll instruct I must do without caring for my individual loss and gain,' in this way.
Hare Kåñëa. Hare Kåñëa. Gaura Hari bol! Gaura Hari bol!
Devotee : How can you find a Guru?
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara Swämé : Ha, ha, ha, ha. Your Guru is already there, and who is nearer to him… Why you accepted him as Guru, what for? What did you see peculiar in him? And that peculiarity wherever you will find, there you can rely as Guru. Same nature, same temperament, same instruction, same object, things of that stage, that layer, that plane what attracted you. You did not come to a figure, not attracted by a figure only, the eye experience, but you are attracted by a particular ideal, proposal, instruction, and that will be your real guide. Wherever you'll find that your Guru is present there, in his instruction, in his advice, in his conception given about you and your environment, your prospect. All these things wherever you'll find you will find your Guru. In your Guru eye or anywhere, wherever you will find what attracted your inner heart, you must try to find out that. …with the eye experience… experience, or touch experience, anything else, but the ideal, the advice.
Devotee : Most detectable with the heart.
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara Swämé : Prospect, ah, the heart, the unfoldment of his heart. He gave you the prospects of some supernatural sweetness and prospect, hope. Wherever you will find things of that layer, there you can find your Guru. He's present there, and that is one with your Guru. The gist, the very existence of our Guru is of that consciousness, of that feeling, that sentiment, that hope, that knowledge, that light.
Gaura Hari bol! Gaura Hari bol! Gaura Hari bol! Gaura Hari bol!
The meaning of his words; our Guru Mahäräj departed forty-four years ago, but we are living, but we have caught hold of his advices, the gist of his speech, advices, and his conduct, his movement. And looking after that and consulting that also with the similar scriptures and other past Vaiñëavas, making an adjustment we are moving forward so long. So long, and we don't think that we have deviated from his divine feet. We are still there. His divine feet still within our heart as fresh as ever, Hare Kåñëa, enlivening us always. And what he said we find in Bhägavatam, in Gétä, more deeper and deeper in his life, progressing, not deviating, by his grace.
And whatever new things come to us we try to adjust with them in such a way that it may improve his advice and we may have some adjustment with them. What position, if any new things come we are to also give adjustment with that, keeping his glory above all. In his line we are to make adjustments if new things we come across, keeping the standard given by him intact. Ha, ha, ha.
…what is high, what is low, with that universal standard we apply and we find the taste. "What is this? It is gold or it is silver or it is iron or it is mud?" By applying that standard of knowledge we examine and place them accordingly. "Oh you mud, you earth, you have come with a posing of the gold, never, go away, go, take your place down there. Only with a glittering colour you have come, the mud, to take the position of the gold." Ha, ha, ha.
What do you say? The eternal standard, that test. Gaura Hari bol! Acintya bhedäbheda, advaya-jïäna, satyam , çivam, sundaram. The conception of the progressive substance, satyam, çivam, sundaram. The eternal existence, the knowledge, and the beauty, änandam, charm, how the superior conception, one after another. Acintya bhedäbheda, and bhedäbheda and advaya-jïäna. One all-harmonising organic whole, and there is difference and common, and that is in the hand of the Absolute Power. And Absolute Power is not, there is not any anarchy, but there is not only justice but above that there is mercy. Not only consciousness, judgement, decision, judiciousness, but there is beauty, there is love, holding the supreme position, sympathy.
"I am friendly. I am the Absolute Power but I am friendly to you all. So don't be afraid."
ahaà hi sarva-yajïänäà , bhoktä ca prabhur eva ca
[na tu mäm abhijänanti, tattvenätaç cyavanti te]
["-Because I alone am the enjoyer and rewarder of all sacrifices. But since they cannot know Me in this way, they again undergo birth, disease, infirmity, and death."]
[ Bhagavad-gétä , 9.24]
bhoktäraà yajïa-tapasäà , sarva-loka-maheçvaram
suhådaà sarvva-bhütänäà , jïätvä mäà çäntim åcchati
["I am the enjoyer of the results of sacrifice performed by the fruit-hunter, as well as the results of austerity performed by the liberation-seeker - I am their only worshippable object; I am Näräyaëa, the indwelling monitor of all planes of life, and the Supreme Worshippable Personality who awards liberation. And I am the well-wisher of all - I am Kåñëa, the devotee's most adorable friend. The soul who thus knows My true identity attains the ecstasy of knowing his own original divine identity."] [ Bhagavad-gétä , 5.29]
You will attain peace, you will get peace, only when you find that the only controlling agent is my friend. Then you'll be, no apprehension you'll have. The ultimate controller is my friend so my interest is well represented there. Then only I can find ease, no anxiety. You are to only find that, that I am not in a chaotic environment but it is considered judicious and the ultimate dispenser is my friend. Ha, ha, ha. This conception gets us living relief from any anxiety we can apprehend. Is it not?
Devotee : Yes Mahäräj.
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara Swämé : Yes, in Gétä it is said Kåñëa says that: "I am all in all but I am friend to you all," So no misgivings, ha, ha, ha, no apprehension.
Devotee : Mahäräj. If one wants to spread Kåñëa consciousness, sometimes he has to engage in big projects in order to make a big impact.
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara Swämé : If he's inspired, if inspiration is there, not individual ambition, then it will devour you, it is pratiñöhä . But if within you find the inspiration then you'll have no fear. If ordered, if from that side, then you are all right. Otherwise not for your own individual name and fame, that is an anartha, that is, the agent of mäyä will entice you and leave you in the darkness, ha, ha, after all. Pratiñöhä, one is pratiñöhä, the name and fame for individual aspiration, and the other the opposite; rather to serve, to engage every narth for the service of Guru, to satisfy, to fulfil the order of the upper divinity. We must differentiate between the two.
Devotee : Should one be afraid, should a person be afraid of his own personal individual…
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara Swämé : So with the good association we can take any ambitious work, the faithful association, sädhu-saìga . Our Vyenkatta Prabhu once he told me in my Prapanna-jévanämåtam there is one poem composed by me, in the beginning, introduction.
antaù kavi-yaças-kämaà , sädhutävaraëaà bahiù
çudhyantu sädhavaù sarvve , duçcikitsyam imaà janam
[O saintly devotees, please purify this wrongdoer who on the pretext of saintliness desires in his heart the prestige of a poet, and who is thus afflicted with the practically incurable disease of insincerity.]
There is a verse in the introduction I have written. "Within I have got some sort of ambition of being a poet, becoming a poet, ambition of a poet within. And outwardly I am under the cover of a sädhu ; so a hopeless case for the doctors to treat. So I pray to the divine agents to come to my relief. This is my prayer." This has been appreciated much by…
Devotee : Satsvarüpa Mahäräj.
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara Swämé : Satsvarüpa Mahäräj, ha, ha. He's also writing something. Perhaps he might have, ha, ha, ha, felt himself in that…
……..
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara Swämé : … suspicious of our purity, that I may not be misguided. "Is it for the service of Guru-Gauräìga or some inner malpurpose, evil purpose within me?" We'll be very alert in our self-analysis, self-analysis. So our Guru, Kaviräja Goswämé and others, Mahäprabhu: tåëäd api sunécena, puréñera kéöa haite muïi se laghiñöha, jagäi mädhäi haite muïi se päpiñöha, puréñera kéöa haite muïi se laghiñöha. This is their, they're suspicious, they're rather definitely accusing own self, "You are sinner of the sinner. You are sinner always." They're alert to chastise their inner feeling, inner existence, "That you are meanest of the mean." It is whatever good you find it is all grace coming from outside to you. In that case you may consider yourself to be fortunate. But as for your intrinsic value that is all meanness there, if you are to find. You are traitor, you have left the Kåñëa consciousness, and come to compromise with the illusory energy. How can you rely on yourself? This is your innate nature. You are a foreign land, atom. How have you joined this mäyic campaign? Why have you joined this mäyic campaign? You must think it deeply. Why are you here? This is your fault. So you are well known, notorious to Me. I can't rely on you. Only by the grace of the sädhus you have some ray of hope." In this way one is to chastise his own self. Who is he, ke?
Gaura Hari. Gaura Hari. Gaura Hari. Gaura Hari. Gaura Hari. Gaura Hari. Gaura Hari.
Bhaktivinoda Öhäkura explains tåëäd api sunécena , "You consider yourself lower than a grass, blade of grass." And he comes to explain why lower than a blade of grass. "It may be a material thing but still it has got its own position. And what about you? You are vikrta, your position is lower than a material existence. Why? A man may be a fool, but he's not mad. A mad man is worse than a fool. So you are vikåta, you are misguided, you are determined to dig your own grave, so your position is lower than a blade of grass. It may be zero, but you are negative value, you have got." In this way Bhaktivinoda Öhäkura is explaining this tåëäd api sunécena . "Why you are meaner than the blade of grass, why? You are misguided. But it retains its zero position but you're in the negative side, progressing." Do you follow?
Devotee : Yes.
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara Swämé : In this way. A straw has got no independence but you have got independence, free will, but working in the negative side. Your position is worse.
Gaura Hari bol! Gaura Hari bol!
One has got no capital but one has got loan, he's less than that poor man, a man who has got loan.
Hare Kåñëa. Nitäi. Nitäi. Gaura Hari bol! Gaura Hari bol! Gaura Hari bol!
Nitäi. Nitäi. Nitäi. Nitäi. Nitäi. Nitäi. Nitäi. Nitäi.
Our Guru Mahäräja used to say about the power of illusion, misconception. This is compared with the leg of a cock. The cock moves in such a way as if its leg is very strong, very, very strong. With such gait, such posture and gesture, the cock moves. But how much power is there? So our Guru Mahäräja generally used, "This is mäyä but it has got the ignorance. When compared with the potency of Kåñëa what power he has got? That may be brittle and broken with the least energy. But when compared with the potency of the sädhus then of course mäyä is nothing." And one who is a soldier under some Napoleonic general he won't care for Alps, but other side, if one climbs into Alps he will die; single ambition. The general is there, his insinuation, his order, has got that sort of value, from all sides of intelligence and other weapons and other things, food, weapons, guidance of a general makes the soldiers invincible. So under the command of the grand preceptor a soldier, sädhu, can do anything and everything because the general is there. His genius is guiding. Otherwise, singularly fighting, a soldier how much he has got the power?
Hare Kåñëa. Hare Kåñëa. Gaura Hari bol!
Devotee : Initiation a necessary part of everyone?
Devotee : Dékñä, is it necessary for everyone?
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara Swämé : Of course, that is the general thing. Dékñä means what? Dékñä means divyaà jïänaà,
[divyaà jïänaà yato dadyät, kuryät päpasya saìkñayam
tasmäd dékñeti sä proktä , deçikais tattva-kovidaiù]
["The process by which divine knowledge (divyaà jïänaà) is given and sins are destroyed is called dékñä by the highly learned scholars who are expert in spiritual affairs."] [Hari-bhakti-viläsa, 27]
That is a process through which divine knowledge and power is imparted to a person; that is a process, not a form, where there's some material thing within the form, some substantial thing. There must be something given, not in terms of money or any material, but in form of knowledge and grace. Sometimes it is not detectable, just like homeopathic globules. All the globules very similar, but the potency within, that is all in all. In a particular seed that big tree is within there. So the potency within, that is all-important. It will develop, express itself in proper time, whether it is a mustard seed, or very small, that is the seed of a banyan tree. The small seed can produce banyan tree, and the small seed very similar that mustard oil, seed, shrub; a homeopathic globule.
[Askara?] Only not the physical sound but some good will within the sound, the knowledge, the prospect, everything, very fine, within the sound that is given to the disciple. And by cultivating that we gradually find, and the mania must be given, the sädhu-saìga and others, otherwise it will die. It must be helped to develop naturally. The mania, some air, some water is necessary then it will prove that it is a banyan tree.
Hare Kåñëa. Gaura Hari bol! Gaura Hari. Gaura Hari.
Devotee : In the other religions Mahäräja, like Christianity and…
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara Swämé : Yes, Christianity truly followed, it will take you to the Christian conception of Godhead. But there is Absolute, there is comparison. There is also, that is relative position, but in comparison the difference between the Christian conception of Godhead, or Mohammedan conception of Allah, how Näräyaëa conception - Kåñëa consciousness, how they may be more effective, and more beautiful, more giving.
Devotee : But there's no initiation, no dékñä, in those religions.
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara Swämé : In some way or other something must be there. Some sort of [samphore?] must be there. Different process in form, but they will require you to do something.
Devotee : Baptising, confession.
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara Swämé : Baptising, then also, the different bath I am told, the Jesus cross. I have got some regard for Jesus also, how he gave out for the people, in what way he sacrificed, and firm faith in God, in the conception of Godhead. But in God also, different conceptions of Godhead is there. Hare Kåñëa. In instalments, something is better than nothing, in this way. He has established that a spiritual gain is all in all and this material achievement is nothing, firmly established here. That is laudable, admirable, but the conception of the goal is not so high, according to us, not so scientifically described ...
End of recording, 27 th, 29 th.12.81