His Divine Grace Çréla Bhakti Rakñaka Çrédhara Deva Goswämé Mahäräj
End of side A, start of side B, 7/8-3-81
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara S wämé : …it may be we leave our, abandon our flesh connection and we come to establish new connection with those that come under the banner of Mahäprabhu. They are our own, and in the physical sense, 'who are our own', that is left. The culture is everything, the inner man is his culture, his culture, his faith rather. So according to faith we are gathered together.
Devotee : Mahäräj, today is the disappearance day of Jagannätha Däsa Bäbäjé.
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara S wämé : Yes, Jagannätha Däsa Bäbäjé, Rasikänanda Goswämé, and that of Mädhav Mahäräj, our Godbrother. Mädhav Mahäräj disappeared two years ago this day. And Jagannätha Däsa Bäbäjé, the veça guru of…
Devotee : Bhaktivin…
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara S wämé : To certain extent. But Gaura Kiçora's Guru was Bhägavat Bäbäjé, his veça guru was Jagannätha Däsa Bäbäjé.
Devotee : What does veça mean?
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara S wämé : Veça means, who took initiation from the Goswäméns, and went to Våndävana and took sannyäsa, the so-called bäbäjé sannyäsa. Gaura Kiçora Bäbäjé took from Bhägavat Däsa. And Bhägavat Däsa was the veça siçya , that bäbäjé siçya of Jagannätha Däsa Bäbäjé. And Bhaktivinoda Öhäkura he came in connection with Jagannätha Däsa Bäbäjé. Jagannätha Däsa Bäbäjé had one favourite disciple in Ambarjurai [?] in the Burdwan District. Sometimes there he used to stay. And Bhaktivinoda Öhäkura had connection there. And we are told that he took veça from Jagannätha Däsa Bäbäjé.
Devotee : Did Jagannätha Däsa Bäbäjé tell something to Bhaktivinoda Öhäkura about preaching in the west?
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara S wämé : I can't remember. Jagannätha Däsa Bäbäjé. I can't remember. He was very, very old. One hundred and twenty-five years we are told. Jagannätha Däsa Bäbäjé. Bhaktivinoda Öhäkura recommended Prabhupäda [Bhaktisiddhänta Saraswaté Öhäkura] to take Hari-Näma from Gaura Kiçora Bäbäjé, and through his recommendation (he came to………………………………….?) Gaura Kiçora Bäbäjé did not make many disciples.
Devotee : How many?
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara S wämé : Maybe three, four, five, like that, maybe. Some say Prabhupäda [Bhaktisiddhänta Saraswaté Öhäkura] is his only disciple, but in Rädhä-kuëòa I saw a gentleman who also claimed that 'I am a disciple of Gaura Kiçora Bäbäjé.' I lived there and served him, Nandavin Kåñëa, he told. Hare Kåñëa.
Devotee : In the Çrémad-Bhägavatam there is the narration which you repeated to us of Chitraketu. So Parvati, she cursed Chitraketu and for this she was chastised a little bit by Çiva. Chitraketu however he did not mind…
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara S wämé : Unaffected, went away.
Devotee : Çiva said, "Just see the nature of Chitraketu, how exalted." So Chitraketu Mahäräj was unaffected but his wives, he had many wives, naturally they must have been very much affected because after all he was their full shelter, and now he was to be sentenced to a very unfortunate birth, in their eyes. So how were they able to avoid committing offences, how the wives of Chitraketu were able to avoid committing offences against Parvati? They might have become angry that, "Why Parvati has unfairly cursed our husband?" If they had that mentality then they might have been guilty of some offence since Parvati is such an exalted personality. So my question is on behalf of the wives of Chitraketu. "What should their mentality have been?" Because Chitraketu is like their Guru and their Guru has been cursed.
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara S wämé : Then, what was the result?
Devotee : Well, the result is that…
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara S wämé : Any conclusion is given there, no?
Devotee : It doesn't mention very much I think about the wives, to my remembrance. No. The wives are not mentioned. What happens to them is not mentioned, therefore I'm asking you, "What could have been their fate now that their Guru pati has been cursed. How did they react to this?
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara S wämé : One is worldly position, another is spiritual position. When coming in clash then worldly connection will have to be defeated. If their affinity is, reverence to Chitraketu is in the worldly plane, then that cannot contest the spiritual position. That Guru, the Chitraketu was Guru of those wives, but that mostly in the worldly sense, not in the spiritual plane. So that won't be cared for them. Parvati has got some position in the spiritual world, and they may not have. If they may not have that strength in the spiritual plane, there is chance of them being defeated. This prakata sambanda, the worldly reverence, respect, but in the spiritual plane that will be more true, more lasting, and durability there. Anything coming in clash will have to be broken. That is the general opinion should be decision. The material consciousness when it comes in contact with the spiritual consciousness, the material consciousness must be defeated, must be broken if there is any clash.
Devotee : The wives of Kaliya, they must have had some spiritual vision.
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara S wämé : Then?
Devotee : Because they were appreciating that Kåñëa had blessed their husband with His lotus feet, even though He was smashing him.
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara S wämé : They came to approach Kåñëa in a serving mood it is told. They got the chance of approaching Kåñëa in a favourable mood. Hare Kåñëa.
Devotee : In the Bhägavat there is the story of Durväsä Muni and Ambaréña Mahäräj, so can you elaborate on the nature of Ambaréña Mahäräj, how he was able to remain so tolerant and in the face of such difficulty. That even he felt it to be his own offence although he was completely free from such offence.
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara S wämé : Something, due to his kñatriya nature, and also sense of varëäçrama duty, religious duty. Atiti [?], " Durväsä is my atiti, so it is my duty to satisfy him. I did wrong. I did wrong." He was already in a critical position and put the question to the assembly of his brahmin advisors. Then the brahmin advisors advised him that, "You take only a drop of water that can be contained in the kusa grass." He took it. So he was satisfied that from the direction of his own conscience he was clear that he was not killed. But as regard social customs he thought he is guilty. He's put into the crisis by the supreme will so he may have to suffer though partially. But he was a devotee and though not of high order but his stability was unquestionable. And also the nature, the habit of the kñatriya feeling has some contribution there. The kñatriyas are careless of their body. They do not care for death, as in the case of Karëa and Paraçuräma.
Do you know the story of Karëa and Paraçuräma? Karëa, the friend of Duryodhana, and he you may know was the son of Kunté before marriage. So he was left in the current of the Ganges in a pot, and one suta, a charioteer, he took him and he was childless, he gave this child to his wife and he was nourished there, Karëa.
Though he came from a kñatriya school but he knew that he was suta putra not kñatriya. But he went to Paraçuräma, the intrinsic temperament was to get training for a kñatriya, and he went to Paraçuräma to be taught. But Paraçuräma's custom was that only brähmaëa and kñatriya, without kñatriya he won't teach anyone less. Karëa gave his acquaintance as a brähmaëa and Paraçuräma trained him, taught him the lessons of the weapon throwing, all these things. Then, one day Paraçuräma is sleeping on the thigh of Karëa and Indra, who was always against Karëa, he had partiality towards Arjuna his son, some say that Indra in the form of a worm, he came to bite Karëa and blood flowed. And when that blood touched the body of Paraçuräma he woke up, and told, "What is this?"
Then he was perplexed, "Oh, it is some worm coming out of the earth and has bitten me and the flow of blood."
"But so much flow of your blood and you don't interfere me, don't ask me to awake. What is this? This much patience a brähmaëa may not have. You must be a kñatriya. Only kñatriyas may have such tolerance, patience. Brähmaëas can never have. So say you are not brähmaëa."
Then he had to confess. "Oh, then, I am a suta-putra." Something like that he told.
Then he threw a curse that, "You have deceived me. Whatever you have learned from me won't come to your help when you'll really be in danger."
So that kñatriya , they have some natural patience, they don't be afraid dying of any physical tolerance. So Ambaréña, that kñatriya habit helped him. "I won't shirk. I face the danger, whatever may come on my head." And also, he was a devotee, pure devotee, but of lower order, not very higher order. We know it from Sanätana. "Ambaréña used to do the service in his hand, and temple," all these things, told that "Ambaréña is a general devotee. Above them there is Prahläda." In this way the gradation went on.
But Ambaréña - and that was the argument taken in by Näräyaëa in Vaikuëöha. "You are a brähmaëa, Durväsä took all this in his favour, two points - I'm a brähmaëa, I'm a tyägi, sannyäsé. And Ambaréña he's a gåhastha, householder, and he's kñatriya. And you are showing partiality to him and you are Brähmaëyadev, we learn from the scripture you are Brähmaëyadev. You must give some prejudice towards our side, to the brähmaëas. But we don't see you doing the justice."
Then Näräyaëa also put in His turn. "Oh, you are a brähmaëa, you are a sannyäsé, but when you went to burn Ambaréña he did not fly away, but what about you? You are making so much of your body consciousness that when Sudarçana came to attack you then you are fleeing the three worlds. And you say that you are more closer towards your brähmaëa and kñatriya but what you say in the consequence Ambaréña honoured My vrata, Ekädaçé. To honour Ekädaçé means to honour Me. He did it. And you also did it. In the Yamunä you found that the time is passing away. You also took some water to keep up the vrata, took päraëa. And you were displeased with him because he observed My vrata. (you are with apathy?) He did not take any real food but only taking a drop of water he showed respect to Me. The Ekädaçé vrata is My vrata and you also observed it. And where is his fault? He gave respect to Me and you were angry with him. And also that was sanctioned by so many brähmaëas of your race, and he's a culprit? So you'll have to go to Ambaréña and the decision cannot be taken in My court."
He went to Brahmä, he went to Mahädeva, all sent to Viñëu, and Viñëu, Näräyaëa also said like that, "You will have to go to that same Ambaréña, you have committed offence there."
"You are making me so, insulting me, it is rather insulting to go to him."
"No, no. You go there. You will find the magnanimity there."
Then Durväsä had no other alternative but to come to Ambaréña. And Ambaréña standing still like a criminal, something like that offending person he is standing there. "I have done so wrong that the brähmaëa is displeased with me. And what is this? The Sudarçana came and drove the brähmaëa to what direction I don't know. But all these troubles due to my connection, so I am a criminal." Like a criminal he was waiting there and as soon as Durväsä came and no sooner he has asked any forgiveness, Ambaréña was ready beforehand. And he gave praise to Sudarçana cakra, "If I have done anything good in my life in the service of the Näräyaëa, Oh Sudarçana, You release this brähmaëa, don't trouble him. It is my request, this is my prayer to You. At the cost of all the merits in my life I pray to You, You please release this brähmaëa from troubling him." Then Sudarçana stopped.
Then Durväsä went to praise: aho ananta-däsänäà:
[aho ananta-däsänäà, mahattvaà dåñöam adya me
kåtägaso 'pi yad räjan , mangaläni saméhase]
["I have seen the greatness of the servitors of the Anantadev, Çré Näräyaëa. You are so magnanimous that although I am an offender you have prayed for me. You hold an unparalleled position in the whole universe."] [Çrémad-Bhägavatam, 9.5.14]
"Wherever he is moving, Oh, what to speak of the servants of the Ananta, Näräyaëa. They're so magnanimous yet we brähmaëas we are fond of austerity and connecting some subtle mystic power and to trouble the ordinary people at large. This is our qualification. But these whoever he be he has got connection with Näräyaëa, they're so generous, so magnanimous. No purity can be compared with bhakti, devotion of Näräyaëa." In this way he began to preach.
But again, Durväsä had to come against Päëòava, here, there, everywhere, that Durväsä is taken in for cursing. He's a man of cursing, a brähmaëa, who is reputed for, notable for his cursing. Everyone was to be afraid of Durväsä for his cursing.
Devotee : Why is he like that?
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara S wämé : He comes in the shadow of Rudra, Mahädeva, Vayankara?, Mahädeva, Çiva. He's born in partiality of the potency of Çiva, Rudra, Vamsa, destruction, some fated connection with destruction, Dibyara ………………..? In Sukhadara also we see his case, in Draupadé's , but the devotee of Kåñëa whatever unfavourable, ultimately they come to prove the dignity of the devotees. Draupadé, only a negligent portion of (circle? sakha?), that was in the pot, and Kåñëa came. "Give some food Draupadé, I am very hungry." And yes, flow from the eyes of Draupadé. "What You say, only for food that we are in danger. Your Päëòava, Your sakhé Draupadé, all will be turned into ashes just now, only for want of food. And You ask to eat something from me, nothing that I have by some arrangement of the unfavourable (disaster?). Today we are in such danger that I have taken my food and everything finished as it was ordained by the sun. But before Draupadé takes her food, the food in the pot won't be finished. But after Draupadé has taken nothing will remain. And that was the case there.
That is…vilolar lankar?, oxymoron or something like the opposite mixing. That we for food that, "I am hankering, I am craving Your presence and You want food. What is this? You know everything and still You want food. No food, no, You please see. If You search, nothing in me. Something maybe in, You search Your pot."
Then Draupadé searched and found a speck, negligent portion of a shakha, [?] vegetable, leek. "Oh give me that, give me that." And he took it.
Yasmin tuñöe jagat tuñöam priëite priëito jagat - [By satisfying Kåñëa, the whole universe becomes satisfied, for one who is dear to Kåñëa is dear to the whole universe.]
"I am satisfied." And in such a plane he's standing he expressed his satisfaction, all were fed, especially the Durväsä with all his disciples. So they went away, fled away. Specially in fear of Bhima (?) "That if we go, if we cannot take any food, the Bhima will not leave us, but punish us, so go away, go away." So Durväsä's curse to the Päëòavas has taken the Päëòavas to a pristine, glorious position.
So in the case of bhakta it is so. Dangers come but only to enhance their beauty, to glorify them, whatever. This is the very nature of the devotion to Kåñëa in that way. None can, nothing can predominate over it. But what humility they show, that is natural. But opposition cannot come in touch with them from other side. So Vaiñëava aparädha in that plane we may not commit any anomaly. That is to be very carefully detected and we must be very careful about that, that who are my well-wisher, I may not do any wrong towards them.
yatak karti jnatam katum saha te tad vidam?
The Vaiñëava's are your guardian, your well-wisher, so be careful not to do any wrong towards them. Otherwise the ordinary persons, ordinary plane, you may not be very particular, they won't harm you. But be alert that in your plane, the important plane which you are able to come in, from that plane obstructions may not come to you to trouble you. Be careful about your own plane, because they're your well-wisher and if you do any wrong to them that will be very bad. And that will bring in turn big disaster. Be careful about Vaiñëava aparädha. And Vaiñëava aparädha is only - the Vaiñëava's, that is another thing, Vaiñëava aparädha. All other misdeeds may get relief from the grace of the Lord but not offences to the Vaiñëava. That is a peculiar thing. All the deeds may be forgiven by the Lord but in the case of His own He does not take the law in His own hand, He gives it to him who is offended to decide. That is a peculiar position of the Supreme.
Våndävana däsa says, "The thorn enters in a particular way in your body and only through that it can go out, not through other parts." So the Vaiñëava's they consist the body of the Lord, as if as it is. So if anything wrong is done to a particular place of His body, there should be given some medicine, some nursing, and not in other parts. In this way - Vaiñëava aparädha. The Vaiñëava can only forgive what wrong is done to him or her, not even the Lord cares to do that. That is a peculiarity in Him.
Hare Kåñëa. Gaura Hari. Gaura Hari. Gaura Hari. Gaura Hari. Gaura Hari.
So we may be saved from offences against a Vaiñëava. Nitäi Caitanya.
Devotee : Hare Kåñëa. We will return now to Mäyäpur Dhäma now.
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara S wämé : Yes.
Devotee : And come again, tomorrow.
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara S wämé : Of course, some of you are coming, either you or who is coming, some coming every day. And I pray to the Lord keep me fit to meet you.
Devotee : We are also praying like that. Hare Kåñëa.
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara S wämé : Any questions?
Devotee : I have one question Mahäräj.
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara S wämé : Yes. Who is he?
Devotee : This is Nava Yauvana Prabhu.
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara S wämé : Comes from?
Devotee : He's from San Francisco, with Atreya Rsi Prabhu. He's working with him.
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara S wämé : That Atreya Rsi came here?
Devotee : Yes, with Svarüpa Dämodara. Nava Yauvana Prabhu, his interest is in Ayurveda.
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara S wämé : And how long is he in connection with this ISKCON?
……..
Devotee : Kåñëa says in the third chapter [3.37] of Bhagavad-gétä , käma eña krodha eña, that lust and lust alone is the enemy. And then a few çloka's later He says that by regulating the senses one can conquer his enemy.
Çréla B.R. Çrédhara S wämé : And in regulation He asks us to have an acquaintance with the nature of soul, then all these will be turned into ashes.
indriyäëi paräëy ähur , indriyebhyaù paraà manaù
manasas tu parä buddhir , buddher yaù paratas tu saù
["The learned proclaim that the senses are superior to inert objects, the mind is superior to the senses, and the faculty of resolute intelligence is superior to the mind. And he who is superior to the intelligence is the soul himself."][ Bhagavad-gétä , 3.42]
evaà buddheù paraà buddhvä , saàstabhyätmänam ätmanä
jahi çatruà mahä-bäho , käma-rüpaà duräsadam
[O mighty Arjuna! Knowing the soul to be thus perfectly distinct from the intelligence, steady the mind with resolute intelligence and destroy the indomitable enemy, lust.]
[ Bhagavad-gétä , 3.43]
Who is not easily accessible, we cannot trace where he lives, but suddenly comes and after looting, disappears. But the way to conquer them is to analyse what is the senses, what is the position of our senses. Then what is the position of the internal king of the senses, the mind. And then, what is intrinsically the acquaintance of the faculty of judgement, the buddhi, reason. Then, with the help of the reason to try to find out the background of the reason, of the judgement, of the decisive faculty, the background - what is that? That is only a pencil of ray and its nature is diabolically opposite to the world of experience. In Çrémad-Bhägavatam there is an example that in the moonlit night the cloud has covered the moon. And the cloud is seen by the light of the moon but the cloud has covered the moon.
na raräjoòupaçchana , svajyotsnä bhäsitairghanaiù
ahaà matyä bhäsitayä , svabhäsä puruño jyathä
The example is drawn from Upaniñad . So, the ahaìkära - the mind, the senses, sense consciousness, the mind and the intelligence - all combined forming a system has covered ätmä, the moon. But they are seen and it is possible for them to act only because there is light, because ätmä, the moon. So, by the help of the reason we shall try to catch what is above that and we shall be able to see that it is ätmä. We may come in direct connection with ätmä, and conception also, however hazy it may be. Then the whole thing of the material aspiration will turn into trash and you will be able easily to conquer all the charms of this world. The Lord says here. Only anyhow you try to have the superior conception of your ätmä. You are so and so. And these base things have come to entrap you. How dignified position you are in there, that you are, raso 'py asya, paraà dåñövä nivartate:
[viñayä vinivartante, nirähärasya dehinaù
rasa-varjaà raso 'py asya , paraà dåñövä nivartate]
["Although the person of gross corporeal consciousness may avoid sense objects by external renunciation, his eagerness for sense enjoyment remains within. However, inner attachment to sense objects is spontaneously denounced by the person of properly adjusted intelligence, due to his having had a glimpse of the all-attractive beauty of the Supreme Truth."] [ Bhagavad-gétä , 2.59]
That charm will be vanished when you come in contact slightly with the dignified position of your own soul. And what to speak of the Supersoul - Paramätmä, and not to speak anything of Näräyaëa and Kåñëa! So much ecstatic enjoyment is that side, only when come, it is within you, though it is far away at our present conception, but still it is with us, the jévätmä. And try to concentrate even for a second there and we'll find how dignified position, and whose are these thieves - the reason, the mind, the senses - all are thieves and dacoits taking you where? - in the land of misery, by some intricate conspiracy. That will seem to you.
indriyäëi paräëy ähur , indriyebhyaù paraà manaù
manasas tu parä buddhir , buddher yaù paratas tu saù
["The learned proclaim that the senses are superior to inert objects, the mind is superior to the senses, and the faculty of resolute intelligence is superior to the mind. And he who is superior to the intelligence is the soul himself."][ Bhagavad-gétä , 3.42]
Our senses are superior in comparison with all the things we experience around. Without senses nothing is of any importance to us. Suppose this touch, the eye and then the vision, the ear, devoid of all then no conception of anything external, the world is nothing to us. Again the central figure of the senses is mind. He is calling me, "Oh, I was unmindful. I did not hear." The sense is here but because I was unmindful I did not hear him. I did not see, unmindfully. So mind is in the centre. And mind is saìkalpa vikalpa, the two functions of mind - "I want this, I don't want this. I want this, I do not want that." This is mainly the acquaintance of the mind.
Then buddhi, from mind we are to up to buddhi, reason. What is that? nischiankar [?]
"Oh, mind wants that but it will have such reaction, don't go that side." The buddhi, the intelligence will, the faculty of judgement will give me precaution, "Don't go, don't hear what the mind says, don't obey." That is intelligence.
Then, if we go up, surpassing intelligence, and search after what is the backing of intelligence, the function of intelligence is making possible, what is that background, then we'll be able to see, "Oh, this is myself proper. And all outside extension in the material world, they are material coating and I may leave them and with the ätmä I can go up somewhere else. This atmosphere is not at all necessary to me, it is harmful, it is a coating, a garment which is thrust on me to come in connection with this bad environment. We are leaving this here, and my soul proper with that realisation I can go to a higher direction, towards Paramätmä, by going up. This is coming down and that is going up. Going up from ätmä to Paramätmä and His environment, and passing Brahmaloka I am to go to Çivaloka and Vaikuëöha. Then when in Goloka, then I am in complete, my return journey is complete there, so to say.
Svarüpe sabära haya , golokete sthiti - the domain of love and beauty and extreme dedication. That is innate and that is very easy at the same time. And this [here] is all laborious and artificial. Whatever we are doing here we are in connection with, whatever function and activity is all artificial. And we shall find that is only natural in our innate conception. Svarüpe sabära haya, golokete sthiti. The beauty, or love, similar, our intrinsic hankering for that, that is svarüpe. We may know or may not know but our innate hankering to come to beauty and not force. Some of us may think that force is a greater attraction, but if our analysis is
perfect then we shall come to know that power is not the final resort of our hankering. This final thirst is for beauty and then for love. And that is found in the land of the highest dedication. We must pray for that. Dedication. Dedication means faith. We pray and faith and go up and up and we shall reach the land of spontaneous dedication and love. That is Kåñëaloka that is Goloka. Goloka means full sphere, the solid circle. Not only circle in the plane but solid like a ball. Goloka. Goloka means ball, that is four right angles, solid four right angles, right angled sphere, that is Goloka. A globe, Hare Kåñëa
End of recording, 7/8-3-81
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